重新定义成功的创新与创新挤压播客的克里斯·丹森

“成功并不总是看起来像你想象的那样，但最终，碎片开始聚集在一起。只要你保持开放，你就会发现自己置身于一个意想不到的地方，它看起来并不像你想象的那样。——克里斯·丹森，“创新粉碎”播客的创造者和主持人

为什么故事对创新过程有关？分享故事的创新者可以灌输哪些值？创新领导者如何激发创作者告诉和分享他们的成功和失败故事？

我们与Chris Denson，Creator和Host的讲话说创新粉碎播客。克里斯分享了平等的幽默和洞察力的故事，通过他的个人创新故事和所有创新者可以联系的共同事实。通过采访和合作，与数百名创新者并作为创新者自己，克里斯已经揭开了创新的关键：无所畏惧的创造力和诚实的讲故事。

听听他的创新粉碎播客:https://thecrush.co/innovation-crush-podcasts/

特别是该播客中提到的臭名昭着的189个音高集：https://thechush.co/podcasters/drake-sutton-shearer-the-evolving-culture-of-cannabis/

看看他最近的一本书，破碎的盒子：https://thecush.co/crushing-box-book//

听播客

成绩单

这一集由Untold内容的创新讲故事供电雷竞技电竞竞猜雷竞技raybet提现．在这种身临其境、互动、故事驱动的体验中增加你的最佳想法。在这里，你的团队会为他们最新的项目、原型和提案改进讲故事的技巧，并从25个有影响力的创新故事的史诗般的例子中获得灵感。学习更多在https://undoldcontent.com/innovationstorytelling雷竞技raybet提现Trinning-2/．

凯蒂：欢迎来到创新的不陈述故事，在那里我们扩大了洞察力，影响和创新的解开故事。由无国界的内容提供支持雷竞技电竞竞猜，我是您的主人，Katie Trauth Taylor。我们今天的客人是克里斯·杜森。他是一个获奖创新者和营销人员，当然，霍尔的创新迷露播客。它拥有200多集，世界各地的700K订阅者。克里斯只是在创新过程中迈出了一个强大的思想领袖。克里斯，非常感谢你在播客。

克里斯:谢谢你！谢谢你这么热情的介绍。

凯蒂：绝对的。是的。我没有做那件事——我只是皮毛而已。你在白宫谷歌分享了你的专业知识。告诉我们一些你个人的创新故事。

克里斯:你知道，这很有意思，我的意思是，这种措辞，“个人故事”，因为它是我沿途所学到的事情之一。当您在任何方面创建时，这是一个非常有趣的人。我在这个空间里切了牙齿。我实际上是为美国电影院工作的，在60年代政府施加了学院。大约10年来，有一个数字内容实验室，在温室的绞刑架中操作。所以我们在图书馆上方有一个隐藏的层。我们的工作是成为一个思想坦克，用于婚姻技术和娱乐。当时，我们就像，哦，我们将来应该至少3到10年。而且，你知道，多年来越多，差距所得到的较窄。因此，我们在那里，我们与来自Playstation的每个人都与HBO到Leonardo Dicaprio基金会的洛杉矶县艺术博物馆，只要像实验一样。 You know, there were four of us who ran the lab, but at the same time, we would recruit volunteer mentors from all over the world. So at any given time, we’d have an extended family of about 50 to 60 pretty brilliant people who were doing stuff I did not know existed. So I think that was the first domino. And then it just kind of — that really struck a chord with me in terms of the spirit of invention. And, you know, it’s almost like when you get shown your superpower, you’re like, oh, that’s what I’ve been doing all this time. So you didn’t have — I didn’t really have the words or vocabulary to kind of express what I was interested in from a business and creativity standpoint. So that was the first and then just kind of kept going from there.

凯蒂：六年前启动创新粉碎的激励是什么？

克里斯:可能是那种同样的机械师。我想，你知道，当你以任何方式在矛小尖时，你会用手谈论你的手，因为你喜欢 - 无论你在说什么都不存在。你是喜欢的，然后它会这样做，它会这样做。

凯蒂：是的。

克里斯:所以我离开了公司，我正在为一家名为Machinima的公司工作。它是 - 对于那些正在听谁是游戏玩家和书呆子文化的人，这就像一个海报孩子在一个时间里的YouTube上的成功。我离开那里，我开始与许多关于创新思想的公司作为他们组织的做法。他们中的大多数都不知道我在谈论什么。所以他们就像，哦，所以你是一个创造性导演。有时候，你就像。或者，哦，你是技术人。有时是技术。所以它只是善良 - 我知道我很羡慕谁在做我正在谈论的事情。所以我只是使用创新设计的设计，粉碎那种社区，告诉这些故事，达到更广泛的观众，并表明这是一种实际的操作模式与，你知道，一些神奇地出现的最终产品 day, which is typically — in some cases — how we look at innovation.

凯蒂：是的。告诉我们关于你通过这个播客揭露的曲折，失败，枢轴充满和朦胧的世界，以及在创新空间中所做的所有工作。

克里斯:哦，这是丑陋的。你知道它很有趣，我记得我第一次喜欢，哦，这不像听起来那么漂亮。即使是有点像蘸水的人一样。我的一个真正的好朋友，她不介意我提到这一点，她的名字是zholly。她为TEDX写了宪章。在她的时候 - 让我看看我是否可以获得这项权利 - USC Annenberg创新中心的创始执行董事。所以她是第一个执行主任那里，建造那个实验室，然后也开始与TED一起创建TEDX。所以这是美国苏尔邦的第一个TEDX。就像我从远处那样钦佩的人一样，在我们做的节目之前，我不认识她。她说的第一件事就像，好吧，你为什么要跟我说话？ I was like, because you’re amazing. And then as we were talking, it was such a — I’m overexaggerating — but it was a little bit of a downbeat of an interview. Right. I’m thinking about you’ve done all these exciting things, and what you’ve come to find out and what I started to hear repeated over and over again was that, you know, the innovator’s journey is a lonely one. You know, if you see the world a certain way or you have a vision on how things can be done better or differently than what people are used to, you know, it’s going to take a while before everyone’s on board with that vision. You know, fast forward to whatever, a hundred and some episodes later, I interviewed another guy by the name of Drake Sutton-Schearer, who founded a company called PROHBTD, which was one of the first movers in the cannabis space. And probably within 10 minutes of our conversation he’s like, you know, we pitched our business 189 times before we saw one dime.

凯蒂：哇。

克里斯:而且我就像189年 - 它有点吹过我的思绪。近200个音高。正确的。So the idea of keeping up enthusiasm against opposition to, you know, know where to pivot and reinvent, especially if, you know, let’s say you started a business and a year and a half later, is like you’re still not at a place you want to be and the world is changing, you’ve got to pivot again. And so you’re just kind of constantly in a state of iteration. And there’s emotional grit attached and there’s communication skills necessary to make sure that your vision is stated and presented clearly, all these different things. And, you know, even inside of organizations — I mean for awhile I ran the innovation practice at Omnicon Media Group and there are — out of 10,000 employees around the world — are about 20 of us focused on what’s around the corner in terms of culture and technology. And even inside of an organization doing well, and one of, you know, “Most Innovative Agency” award at Cannes Lions, like you’re always fighting for, you know, what looks to others to be new. And that could affect business, it affects, you know, how you’re able to get projects done, it affects budgets, it’s so many different things that go into what we look at as, oh, that was innovative. It’s just not as — it’s not always as sexy as —the process isn’t always as sexy as the outcome.

凯蒂：我很喜欢你刚才分享的例子因为你分享了我们的创业经历和企业经历在一个拥有数万名员工的公司里，作为一个小而强大的创新团队的一员。而且，就像你说的，当你处在那种位置时，你会觉得很孤独。如果你不介意的话，跟我们分享一些故事吧。我很想知道你和你的团队的一些经历当你试图获得认可或改变文化或真正帮助引导人们从他们的年度路线图中寻找答案的时候。那是什么样的经历?特别是如果故事在其中扮演了一个角色，它又扮演了什么角色呢?

克里斯:哦，凯蒂，有这么多。一个实际的项目例子，我想说可能是2014年。我们和华纳兄弟合作。从商业的角度来看，这正是VR开始变得越来越流行的时候。他们发行了一部电影叫做《风暴中》，就像一部追逐龙卷风的电影。我们想，哦，如果我们创造一个虚拟现实体验，我们可以把人们放在龙卷风的中心?所以，首先，我们反复讨论，哦，龙卷风很严重，我们不想把它们变成一个游戏。就像这里已经有一些误解在它是什么，我们不希望它是一个游戏，我们希望它是一个电影的体验，等等，等等。然后我们决定不只是做VR，还做一个盒子，你基本上可以在90秒的体验中，你被推入龙卷风中，你躲在暴雨的排水沟里，有东西砸向你。但在这个盒子里，我们还做了振动座椅和风扇。 So both of those things would increase in intensity depending on where we were along in the experience.

凯蒂：惊人的。

克里斯:所以我们需要可能就像一个很好的三个月跑道来做那个项目。所以客户一直在回来，来回，他们就像，不，不，谢谢。所以我们可能在那个时间点六个月的领先。在我们的营销截止日期之前大约六周，嘿，嘿，记得你们谈论的Tornado VR的事情？我们能这样做吗？所以我们不仅要这样做，它也喜欢在匆忙时间表上。我们最终赢得了这项项目的一堆奖项。当时我们在那一年在Comic-Con推出它的时候。只有 - 只有另外一位VR体验，这是一个像墙缩放一样的宝座游戏。这很酷。 But, you know, it’s like it’s limited. So by comparison, we had just had a lot more experience before that all over the world and so forth. But that idea of like kind of fighting for the vision and continually communicating it and then once you actually have an opportunity, it doesn’t even look like you hoped it would from a logistical standpoint. But aside from that, like we did not stick with the agency for a second, you know, a lot of it is just — if you’re an intrapreneur in any way and your job is to discover new opportunities. We had to determine a cadence by which we could just continually stay in the agency’s face, right. Our clients, the other teams, other groups around the world, et cetera, et cetera. So we developed other products and services. So we would write a book every quarter, which we called Pop. And it would just be like 50 interesting things we’ve seen in culture. Right. And we’d kind of present them on the phone, but we’d send the books to all our clients and things like that. We would do an annual trends report on culture and technology and kind of roadshow that. So any time we can just showcase our knowledge and expertise and educate people, it made the job of selling an actual idea a lot easier. So, you know, it’s a lot more work that goes around the actual building of the things.

凯蒂：是的，绝对。我喜欢你分享那些紧张局势，开始在尝试将每个人与“完成”的共同愿景上对齐，以便“完成”看起来像。然后导航这一点的一些挑战。然后也必须在最后接受“完成”几乎没有看起来像我们在创新过程开始时预期的那样。

克里斯:哦，绝对。是的。我的意思是它会为它的每一个阶段，对吧。你知道，我有一种采用了这一原则，即我听说过，这不是我自己的，但“做比完美更重要。”所以很多时候，不管是你在间距相和你一样，没事，我的一切，现在是一个段落。就像，嗯，也许你可以路演，与一些特定的个人。现在我有一个甲板。现在我有一个MVP。而没有这些东西永远感觉像满怀憧憬，你知道的。即使你得到的东西做，这就像，哦，我们希望做这么多。 I like to compare that to other industries as well. You know, I wrote a book a couple of years ago, and I have a friend who’s a really great documentarian. And we were just talking about the process of creating stories. And we were like, you ask any documentary filmmakers like, oh, we had so much more we wanted the show, or so much more story we wanted to tell, or we ran out of time, we ran out of budget, and this is what we have. And it could be like the best movie you’ve seen. But you’re like — that creator had a whole other vision, you know, that they didn’t quite get to. And so how do you reconcile that internally, logistically, you know, and give up that real estate and get to a place of done is better than perfect. And it’s hard to navigate sometimes.

凯蒂：是的，绝对。Especially — we didn’t get to touch on this too much, but you mentioned that at the very start of our conversation, the emotional turmoil of being an innovator can be so brutal to ride the ups and downs, the exciting times where people are — when something’s picking up steam, and then the really down times where you are going for pitch number 189 getting any buy-in. Which I think that’s probably the highest number I’ve heard. But I would love for listeners of the podcast to comment and tell us what’s the highest number of times they’ve had to pitch something before it got traction. Can you talk a little bit more about, you know, how you navigate the emotional ups and downs of innovation or how you see other people navigating that?

克里斯:是的，你知道，这并不容易。我的意思是，对我而言，你知道，有时你有美好的日子，你有糟糕的日子，就像其他任何东西一样。我猜我个人尝试做一点比较分析。你知道，如果你想到你所拥有的工作，那么你知道，这是你派出的百分之百ulumé，让你落地你的梦想工作。正确的。或者如果是 - 我们进入了这些重复模式。我有点在业务中诞生，非常主观，我做了大约六年，七年。所以，你知道，在昨晚昨晚观众在一个ruckus，右边看着你的最佳材料并看看一个空白凝视的观众。就像你那种重复的体验一样，我会在一次和一遍又一次地拒绝它。而且我认为你的体验越多，就越是越是越是越过肌肉就能完成它。 And, you know, so I think for, let’s call it a first time entrepreneur or a first time innovator, it’s like that feeling of rejection could be pretty overwhelming. And, you know, but the 10th time you experience, the 20th time. And as long as you’re experiencing some success along the way, you know, whether that may be that pitch didn’t get you the funding you wanted, but it got you a really great partner. Or maybe it didn’t get you a partner, it got you a really good resource. There’s all sorts of different outcomes. So I think it’s also recalibrating what success looks like. One of — our chief innovation officer when I was at the agency used to say the best compliment we can get when we leave a room is — the best comment we can get is I didn’t know that. Right. I didn’t know that was possible. And so the fact that you can — success actually in that regard is not the number of projects we do and that are out in the world. It’s how many people we give new information and inspiration to. And even in the case of that VR experience, we got turned down the first time, multiple times. So, you know, obviously, but we left enough of an impression that it circulated within those teams and it came back our way. So, you know, it just I think success doesn’t always look like you envision it. But eventually the bits and pieces start to come together. And as long as you remain open, you can find yourself in an unexpected place that, again, it doesn’t look like you thought it would.

凯蒂：这是非常有力的建议。我在想，你能不能分析一下，在你看来，什么样的失败或损失是好的和有效的，哪些是应该避免的?

克里斯:是的，我想如果我正确理解你的问题，我会说——你知道我谈论了微失败这个话题。正确的。你可以听任何播客或观看任何TED演讲，人们会说，哦，谁死了或者我们损失了1000万美元或者我建了我家的房子，我们失去了房子。但我觉得这些事情就像你发的那20封邮件没人回复一样。还有那通电话一直在改期，现在已经八个月过去了。或者有人说，哦，我们喜欢它，我要告诉我的团队，这是我老板喜欢的东西，我们刚刚批准了这样的东西，所以它是完美的。然后就没有结果了。我觉得所有这些小事情都在蚕食你的创造力，你的热情和你的能量，不管你在建造什么。所以当我想到失败的时候——并不是一定要避免或克服失败，而是要注意那些小的——在书中，我把那一章叫做“被千记的死亡”。

凯蒂：是的。

克里斯:就像一巴掌，好吧，你弄疼我了。三，你会说，好了，够了。几百年后，你可能会在医院。所以我认为这些都是需要注意的。正确的。另一方面，我认为——我最近在与“画猜词”的发明者的一次谈话中了解到这一点——他说，当他在开发那个产品时，他就像他开始为成功而计划。大多数人都知道失败后该怎么做。正确的。我们会回到工作上，或者，你知道，我会给这个，你知道，一年，如果它不奏效，我就会去做XYZ。但是我们没有计划，哦，它真的有用。 What are the possibilities? Right. Like really allow ourselves to imagine, you know, deeply. So I think failure, it looks so many — it looks so different just depending on who you are, what you’re making, who your teams are, what’s the time of year, like so many different factors and things that can kind of mess up along the way. You kind of don’t know. You don’t know what the failure is going to actually be. You can kind of get ahead of it and be predictive. But for the most part, it’s kind of like remaining an openness to whatever happens.

凯蒂：我喜欢你谈论设想成功看起来的重要性。你知道你什么时候开始你的播客或当你开始在创新空间中成长并成为作者和一个发言者时，你知道什么是成功对你有什么样的吗？你能想到你生活中现在的东西吗？

克里斯:哦,不。我的意思是，我想我会思考一些事情，但我的个人机制有时是，尽量停留在当下，你知道。甚至当我还是个大学生的时候，他们问我，哦，你五年后打算做什么?就像，我不知道。我只是想把工作做好，看看它会把我带到哪里。正确的。我也不知道，我上学不是为了当医生，我知道医学院毕业后我想在创伤科工作。正确的。它更像是，你知道，让我看看。让我们试着敞开心扉。 And almost to a fault to some degree. I mean, you asked about Innovation Crush. It was like, OK, cool, let’s start a show. Like I was working with this network called Sideshow at the time and they had a lot of comedy podcasts. And like I said, I have a background in comedy, but I also have the business sense to make Innovation Crush a cross between Fast Company and The Daily Show.

凯蒂：是的，我喜欢那样的。

克里斯:但我没有 - 即使我开始工作，我就像，哦屎。这是一个哦，屎时刻。喜欢，哦，现在我该怎么办？所以，你知道，我觉得你开始在成功后开始追逐，但这就像我现在的方式。我没有建立任何社交媒体资产，我没有 - 也是，你知道，如果你是一个男人秀或一支小团队，就像你只有这么多，你无论如何。所以，我想要做的事情。我不知道成功看起来像什么，但我知道，就像，盛大的愿景就像，哦，很酷，就像有一个A.I。工具，当你知道，你去了网站，你像你想要了解的东西一样，它为你提供了三到四个，十个，无论如何，提到的播客。或者用我的书，我想做像增强的现实。因此，能够喜欢扫描章节标题或图像，并将您带到另一种体验。 And there’s things and like visions that I want to do that sometimes I just don’t have the budget or resources or time to do. So I think that’s where I kind of see my own hurdles on a day-to-day basis.

凯蒂：然而这些限制，或者说是限制恰恰可以打开很多创新的机会。

克里斯:哦，绝对。我是一个坚定的信徒，就像最好的，你知道，创新来自约束。甚至回到原子能机构，就像你有一个客户每年花费数亿美元的客户，广告牌，打印广告，数字媒体，以及你喜欢，嘿，这个机器人怎么样？客户服务机器人呢也可以提供消息和优惠券，您知道并了解您的产品和服务和您的客户的一切。而且他们就像那样，那很可爱，你有点拍打在头上，然后喜欢，这里有20美元，去。喜欢，让我们看看你想到了什么。所以你总是反对某种形式的反对或约束。而且，你知道，就像我想做这本书的事情一样，我就像，好的，好吧，我能做什么？而且这种东西不是最多的，引用unquote创新的东西，但最终做了一个混合片。哪个是我与我的朋友合作，谁是Deejay，一个由米克，Deejay和投资者的名字的人，以及其他许多其他事情。 He’s been a guest on the show a couple of times. And like I ended up circling back for people that I had anecdotes about in the stories. I was like, hey, what’s your favorite artist or album? And they all sent in different answers and we used sound bites from their interviews and mixed them in with songs from that library that we had collected.

凯蒂：是的。

克里斯:所以，再一次，这不是一个巨大的技术壮举，但它就像，好吧，好吧，我能做什么不同于我在世界上看到的?所以播客或宣传一本书用的是混音带也用播客，这很有趣，哦，这很有趣。而且我也没花一分钱。这是一种互惠互利的合作关系。只是想知道你有什么。很多时候我们会看的一个目标,一个产品的目标,我们目前正在寻找的,哦,如果我们只有X, Y和z,但有时你看看你周围的圆,你已经有很多工具和资源,你可能很容易忽视。

凯蒂：这是令人难以置信的建议。你能与我们分享 - 我的善良，你已经采访了数百名创新领导者或只是鼓舞人心。你能与我们分享一些他们最喜欢的故事，他们在他们的创新旅程中共享吗？

克里斯:让我们来看看。我唯一的选择，我真的很喜欢这个，有两个。第一个是Dan Goods，他是NASA的视觉战略家。他在喷气推进实验室工作，用外行人的话来说，他是常驻艺术家。他在那里工作了17年，还参与了飞船任务，把NASA的科学变成了公共艺术体验。就像，你知道，在我们谈话的中间，就像，你知道，你是一个营销人员，对吧，在一天结束的时候，这样人们就可以体验NASA是什么样子的，你知道，一些他们可以联系到的东西。他还讲了一个关于他完成的一个项目的故事他必须画一幅水獭的画。然后有人说，到游泳池来。他们给他看了一段水獭游泳的视频。他们说，到水里，像一个人一样游泳。 And so he redid the assignment, right. He got in the water, he mimicked what he saw in the video. And it really got me thinking about this idea of empathy. And so I actually open up the book with this idea. It’s called Swimming Like an Otter. And you know when we’re creating and developing ideas and products and services and what have you, it’s like, how far are we willing to go to be in the shoes of that end user, customer, recipient, benefactor or whatever. And so I tell, you know, tell this story through other lenses as far as empathy and how you develop that within your team and the products you make, et cetera, et cetera. The other one that kind of gets me — it’s probably because I’m a parent and family and all this stuff — is Nolan Bushnell and Brent Bushnell. So for those who may not know, Nolan created Atari and Chuck E. Cheese and probably 25 other businesses you’ve interacted with. He was the only person to ever fire Steve Jobs. And Brent — he has I think five or six kids and they actually do a Bushnell family panel at South by Southwest every couple years because they’ve all been, like, super successful in their own right and along the same lines. And it’s kind of like, how do you pass down the generational knowledge or behavior, you know, whether that you need to pass that down to younger people on your teams or you need to you know, you want to pass down to your own family members or you know, or leave a blueprint behind, you leave a company. And this is like, all right, here is all the principles and things we’ve learned about how to make this like awesome. Steve Jobs, you know, passes away, Apple still makes amazing products. Right. So it’s all rooted in some sort of blueprint that came from a few select individuals. But then last but not least, you know, I think as much as we put a lot of individuals on pedestals, you know, I’d like to ask a lot of questions about teams. Like Sugar Ray Leonard is a great example. And we’re like, oh, you’re the champ, you won the Olympics, you know, also titles and belts and things. Like usually we celebrate the champ as a singular person. And he goes, oh, yeah, he’s like, I had trainers waking me up at five o’clock in the morning who’d literally, like, come and drag me out of the bed. He’s like, I love McDonald’s, he’s like, he recalled like two or three times, you know, someone pulled McDonald’s out of his hands and threw it in the trash. So it’s just like the types of people around these — like Elon Musk, for instance, you know, he’s got a whole team of people. He has to be the face and of course he’s a brilliant mind, I’m not arguing that. But, you know, also the people that are around these individuals are equally as important. And I think those are, you know — to humanize the innovation story means that, you know, we kind of like demystify what we know about these folks.

凯蒂：确切地。It gets back to your earlier advice about looking around your current community, the current people in your network and thinking what’s possible if we were to put, you know, X and M and P and Q together here, and how can we become connectors and really lean into the places where we already are embedded. And what gaps are there, so where should we go and discover more and make new relationships and form new partnerships. I love that advice of, you know, seeing that innovation is a team sport. Yes, there are garage gurus.

克里斯:确实如此。

凯蒂：是的，你知道，我们总是想要那些鼓舞人心的领导者，我们总是被那样着迷。我认为特别是美国人，这是我们在聚光灯中持有个人的文化身份的一部分。但它是，这是一个团队运动。没有那个 - 我喜欢那种愿景，他们在这里支持谁在这里和可能的事情，真的，这一切都不是可能的。

克里斯:哦，绝对不是。你知道，你知道，它很容易在真空中创造，我想，我想一次 - 就像我相信计划的棘手的力量。你知道，在房间里得到合适的人才才能谈谈谈话。我们去年在南南由西南部致电叫做Govcity的这个项目 - 刚刚拍摄了自己的回归 - 几周前赢得了一家快速的公司“世界变化的理念”奖。

凯蒂：是的，恭喜。

克里斯:但是，你知道，我们没有超级，对。我们知道如果我们在房间里策划了正确的志同道合的人 - 所以一个例子是矿山的朋友为美国人口普查局的创新。所以这是今年的人口普查年份，这是它正在数字化的第一年，他们有各种各样的文化伙伴关系和各种各样的事情。她就像哦，我的老板可以说话。而且我就像，没有。Because — and not because he’s not awesome and accomplished — but there was a specific mindset I was looking to curate in the room, like for people that are curious and, you know, a little bit of polymath, a little bit introverted, but also super brilliant. And, you know, I think you put enough of those people in the same space, you know, and this was a 48 hour think tank that we put together. And, you know, we knew that there would be some great outcomes. I think even by the middle of day two, there was a group like, hey, guys, we’re making a video game. Mind you this is like NASA, Air Force, the LA mayor’s office, like people you wouldn’t say were like, oh, we’re going to invent a video game with anybody wants to join us, you know, come on, let’s do it. So, you know, a thing is, yes, those resources that are around you, but making sure you’re curating the right mindset of individual and also just like allowing a little bit of wiggle room for ambiguity. And so, yeah, and that part to me is the most fun. It’s like that discovering like, oh, who knew that these two — like you said just a second ago — putting these two things together would make something incredible. And that’s the fun part.

凯蒂：当你把人们团结在一起的时候，你知道，你认为这些人会有很强的协同作用，你试图让他们面对某种创新挑战，你认为故事在其中扮演了什么角色?无论是团队的组建，还是他们在挑战结束时推销原型的方式。你是怎么想的，你从哪里听到生活在那些时刻的故事?

克里斯:你知道，之前 - 以及理所当然的 - 但在世界之前对“我来说”这句话有点敏感。我曾经把这些称为“我过”的时刻。You said, you know, at some point, you know, if you and I were not recording a podcast, were having a normal conversation — which we are to some extent — like there would be something that you say that I’m like, oh, yeah, I’ve experienced that, too.

凯蒂：是的。

克里斯:所以，你开始开发这个结缔组织，然后你做多次一遍又一遍。因此，即使在GovCity的情况下，我们想要做的事情之一就是创造一个安全的空间。正确的。所以我们没有任何记录，没有摄像头，等等，等等，因为我们想让人们有关于障碍在哪里真诚的对话。正确的。And, you know, a lot of times you go to an event or you’re asked to speak on the stage or something like that and it’s like, here’s our wins, you know, I’m the opening keynote and here’s all the successful things I’ve done, et cetera, et cetera. But to go, you know, we do well at this and here’s the three areas that we struggle and here’s why and here’s, you know, what’s really hard for me personally. And somebody else in the room goes, I’ve experienced that, too. And it could be an arts organization talking to a finance organization, you know, talking to a military organization. And then, you know, you start to borrow and steal certain principles of getting through hard times from other industries and vertical. So I think by people sharing these honest stories, it gives other people permission, if not, you know, or collaborative lens to look through to work on that also. And so I think storytelling plays a huge role in that part of it. The other part we — like on the tail end of that, yes, that’s the discovery piece, but then you get into the actual pitching. And, you know, that’s an art in and of itself. Right. I think any idea is only as good as it is communicated. Right.

凯蒂：是的,是的。

克里斯:所以你可以拥有世界上最好的事情，如果你无法弄清楚如何将它蒸馏到，你知道，五页或一个短小的模糊或其他什么，可能是有人去，哦，好的。这就是我们说的原因哦，它就像炸玉米饼的优步一样。因为人们一样，好吧，我得到了这两件事。

凯蒂：我会 - 我想投资那家公司。

克里斯:是的。我们可以编辑那个部分，所以我可以开始这个并获得资金。

凯蒂：是的,没错。没有人能接受这个想法。现在这是我们的了，克里斯，我和你。

克里斯:看看，谁知道你今天赚了一百万美元。所以，是的，这是我们制作这些协会的原因。你知道，任何在娱乐中工作的人都知道，它总是喜欢，这就像这个节目，但不同。正确的。或者这是你见过的一个角色。所以我们试图让人们熟悉的东西，所以 - 因为我们正在做一些新的东西。

凯蒂：绝对，是的。你必须要磨，它必须是听上去很像。我喜欢这个想法，那就是，失败和排序对我们的疤痕，或者一直是我们面临的最大挑战的事情，它们实际上是另一个机会有关。所以relatability的这一重要性。这并不仅仅适用，就像你说的，到产品。它适用于人与创始人和人民带头，要知道，一个团队。如果我们不能 - 真的是你说的是信誉不吹牛建成。正确的。这也许是一个简单的智慧，但我觉得有很多人怀念通过展示他们深深明白他们要面临的挑战是或已经对涉及的机会，而且他们愿意把自己说。而且它创建了一个与他人连接更深层次的机会。 And it builds authenticity and it also builds trust. People believe if that leader is willing to admit the challenges that they’re facing, then that person is going to be open to learn and to grow so much faster. And any kind of innovator is — whether they’re hitting full-on success in the beginning or stumbling their way towards the finish line, at some point you’re going to come up against a challenge. At some point, even if you’re the most successful person in the entire world, you’re going to eventually come up against those challenges. And so it’s really part of, I think, a respect and a trust that can grow when we present ourselves as informed and hungry-to-learn admitters of what the challenges are.

克里斯:是的，我的意思是，很棒。我想，你知道，你只是提醒我一个视频，我看到了几次，实际上，但我刚刚把它寄给了一个我做了一个故事并为之挑选的。但它是与第P. Diddy的Ray Dalio会议的视频，肖恩询问他就像各种各样的残酷诚实的问题。他就像，你知道，他就像，我不得不离开比赛一分钟。我不认为我的团队中的人正在对我的水平表演，我如何绕过那个？就像他只是他就像，管理风格和招聘以及他觉得他觉得他自己的方式，或者至少在他的脑袋里。所以，你再次知道，就像这样的想法，这是我们喜欢的人，哦，他制造了岩石和肖恩唐和坏男孩，让我们像所有这些伟大的命中和其他一切。在这里，他有点呈现他最脆弱的自我。而且我个人认为是我的，就像那样是我脸上遇到的最有价值的内容之一。正确的。 Like, of course, I love the pop culture moments, could be getting scared on Ellen or whatever. But there’s a celebrity and then there’s a human being. And so I think those are the things — and even, you know, on a more practical standpoint, I had recently interviewed a guy who’s the chief storytelling officer for the city of Detroit. Which is where I’m from, hometown love.

凯蒂：是的。

克里斯:他知道，我觉得他只有一个国家只有第四个人就像是正式的那样，你知道，就像公民工作的一部分。他就像一段时间一样 - 他有自己的营销代理 - 而且他就个人经历了一些财务状况。所以他就像他在LinkedIn上讲述了这些故事。他的业务伙伴就像，你确定你应该这样做吗？他就像他说，有人需要听到这个，对。我们正在建立一个商业，我就像，我的灯被切断了。正确的。就像因为这个故事比埃隆麝香故事更常见。正确的。所以他正在寻找一种方法，他正在实时记录它。 That’s a little extreme. But it’s that willingness to be like, here’s where, you know, I’m struggling. And I think culturally, we have this lens of transparency thanks to social media and thanks to Google, being able search and look up anything about any company or any person, you know, whether it’s a criminal record or it’s a huge success. And so sometimes there’s a disconnect between what an audience might expect from a person or a brand versus what we feel comfortable giving them. So, you know, it’s a tough gap to close. But, you know, I think just attempting a thing or two here could just be, you know, it’s important to experiment and trying different things to see what works.

凯蒂：是的，绝对。And vulnerability, I feel, is one of the hardest things to do in a business context, where I feel like from a young age we’re trained to sort of cover things up and only present, you know, the perfect shiny PowerPoint or whatever it is in our early training. And I would love to see more young people be able to, you know, be encouraged to share why something didn’t work and to talk through failures. Young professionals, too. To get that experience and really start to get comfortable with that. Because it’s very uncomfortable for a lot of people to talk through why something might not work.

克里斯:是的。你知道，我们很多人喜欢告诉另一面故事。就像这样，我经历了这个 - 还有另一句话，有时候上帝让你透过了一些事情，所以你可以告诉别人你是如何通过它的。所以他们就像，哦，发生在我身上。喜欢，它是一种帖子，对。这仍然有价值。但更脆弱的部分就像我现在正在处理的那样。正确的。你可能有一个导师或者你可以与这些事情交谈。所以 - 但是，除了另一边，你也知道，当我想到微免药或我们面临着创造性的过程中的困难 - 情感上或商业明智 - 我认为我们也必须提醒自己的成功。 You know, and that’s the thing that we forget to — like I got some bad feedback on a presentation I gave like a couple of weeks ago. And, you know, some of it I felt like I 100 percent agreed with and some of it I was like, OK, have I done this before and did it work? Right.

凯蒂：正确的。

克里斯:这是你喜欢的喜剧演员的旅程，你可能会连续三个晚上用同样的材料消磨时间。那第四天晚上，不管出于什么原因，就是不太对劲。

凯蒂：正确的。这并不意味着一定要把它扔进垃圾桶。

克里斯:确切地。所以，你知道，我认为其他创新旅程的另一部分更难的是，你知道，你怎么做反馈？正确的。而且我不认为这是一个魔法子弹。我几乎询问了我采访的每个人，也像自己和解，我喜欢那个他们所说的，但我不喜欢这件作品。尽管你做出了什么决定，但只要尽可能舒适地前进。

凯蒂：我希望我们能回到你的朋友189次，我们可以问，从音高一个音调变动一个八十九岁。这将是一个令人难以置信的研究问题。

克里斯:好吧，我们确实谈论了这一点。所以你们可以去听。

凯蒂：哦耶。我们将链接到那个情节。我很抱歉。是的，我们会链接到它。

克里斯:不，那没关系。我实际上无法记得他们所做的事情。我认为这几乎是我刚才所说的。就像有时是的，有时是没有。我可能已经更多了 - 我必须回去听它 - 但我可能已经倾身了，你是如何保持热情的，你知道，从第三次到第15次。相同的能量，相同的流量，另一架飞机，另一次午餐，你知道，另一个优步骑。而你就像，好的，我们再次走了。

凯蒂：是的。是的。嗯，我将把那个完整的创新粉碎播客在我们的演示笔记中链接，所以你可以听一切。如果您还没有以疯狂的原因，您必须查看创新粉碎。和克里斯，你想留下我们更多的建议，特别是关于创新过程中的讲故事吗？

克里斯:讲故事，你知道 - 你很奇怪你在这个时候遇到疑问 - 但我想到了使故事个人的平衡并使其足够宽阔。所以我想到了这种大规模定制的想法，你知道，在哪里你觉得你正在和每个人交谈。我想起了找到找到连接点的想法。有时我们想，哦，我告诉一个个人故事，如何共鸣。但个性化不一定是，哦，你知道，我被殴打了七次，所以这就是我开始这个反欺凌的应用程序的原因。它可以是其他一些数据点，它与房间里的另一个人联系起来。它可能就像一个你喜欢的乐队，也许那段乐队的某种乐队参与了该计划。只是一些 - 这些其他连接点，以便您可以为观众个性化。当然，这将是个人的。你显然有你的血液，汗水和泪流满面。 And you have to remember that whomever you’re delivering that story to, they’re going to say that they’ve heard this a few times before. You know, whether it’s 5 or 100, like, oh, we get this pitch all the time. Or oh, I have a friend that started a similar thing or whatever. So, you know, thinking about what your points of differentiation are. It’s a whole like world of story. But I do think about like, how do you personalize it and connect and not just hit people with data and geek speak.

凯蒂：是的。是的,没错。所以这可能是一个个人故事，或者它可能试图在某人的心中描绘未来看起来像什么样的形象。它看起来像别人的话语或声音，说或集合的声音。我认为这是如此多的创造力可以让借给这个空间。我们还将链接您的书，因为这是我最喜欢的创新作品之一。所以我们肯定会将它联系起来。而且你必须检查创新迷恋并遵循克里斯·杜森正在做的一切。你太棒了。

克里斯:不是一切，你不想看到一切。其中一些东西是个人的。

凯蒂：我是如此，非常感谢你今天谈论我的时间，我真的很高兴继续追随你的所有工作。

克里斯:谢谢你！非常感谢你，凯蒂。这很棒。

凯蒂：好吧。下次再聊，克里斯。

克里斯:谢谢你！

凯蒂：感谢您在本周的剧集中听。请务必在社交媒体上关注我们，并将您的声音添加到谈话中。您可以在未销售内容中找到我们。雷竞技电竞竞猜

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