L 'Oréal的Siva Muthukrishnan说，讲故事如何改变创新者

本期节目由讲故事的训练数据雷竞技raybet提现来自Unt雷竞技电竞竞猜old Content and Data+Science。通过学习数据可视化和技术讲故事的最佳实践，将数据转换为强大的可视化故事。无论你是PowerBI还是Tableau的员工——或者只是想更好地交流你的数据——这个研讨会都会激发你去发现数据背后的故事。了解更多在这里．

凯蒂[00:00:00]我们今天的嘉宾是湿娃·穆图克里希南他是欧莱雅高级研究的副总裁。希瓦，我很高兴今天能和你谈谈创新讲故事。

湿婆[00:00:12]我也是，凯蒂。谢谢你邀请我。

凯蒂[00:00:14]当然。你能告诉我你个人的创新故事是从哪里开始的吗？

湿婆[00:00:19]我想——你知道，我来自印度。和发明一样，首先，发明和创新之间可疑的区别，发明只是发现如何使某些东西工作。创新是如何使用它们并以某种形式将其货币化。所以创新在我很小的时候就开始了因为当我们发现如何让一些东西工作的时候，我们总是要有资源来稳定这种材料。所以我要讲一个科学的例子因为我不想给出个人的例子。从街头的角度来看，这是相当务实的。科学地说，我当时在印度的实验室里。我的硕士学位毕业后在中国待了一段时间。这个实验室没有专门的吹玻璃工，但我们有一些，你知道，最多我们有一些实验要进行。我没受过这方面的训练。 So I came up with some contraptions that would work and get things done. And in this process, it was more of the creativity. And in fact, the story I told myself, then you can do it this way because somebody did a similar kind of a contraption to make something else work. That’s what actually brought this. And that would be my first example that I made a very sophisticated scientific experiment that would have required a very complex set of very expensive setup. I was able to make it work with a really cheap set of regular arcs and blast pieces available in the lab, glass tubes and stuff, and made it work and created something very interesting in making nano clusters made out of platinum.

凯蒂(00:02:01)哇,难以置信。所以你看到类似的事情发生在-你说这是在一个相邻的行业你模拟了你的解决方案吗?

湿婆[00:02:11]对,没错。这真的不是一个相邻的行业;它是陶瓷。基本上，如果你想一下如何在洪水泛滥的地区浇筑混凝土。他们创造了一个干燥的区域，一个干燥的区域通过使用在那个区域的任何可用的东西，在najin建筑中。他们就是这么做的。所以当他们浇筑混凝土并让它凝固时，他们能够暂时阻挡水分。同样地，我在想是否我必须在惰性环境中混合两种试剂而不是等待一些它实际上不是的东西。为什么他们不能简单地用氩气填充气球然后用管子把它放在一起，让氩气流入，混合，使反应生效?很显然，这是有机化学家经常做的一件事。 But at the time, I was not trained in organic chemistry in the lab. So it was funny that when I showed that to my friends in organic chemistry, they said they were doing it all the time.

凯蒂[00:03:09]当然,当然。但是跳出固有的思维模式，运用一些创造力帮助你为你想要的目的重新创造它。

湿婆绝对地。

凯蒂什么风把你吹到欧莱雅来了?

创新者与时间经验

湿婆[00:03:22]嗯，这是个很复杂的故事，所以我就不细说了。我是一个随波逐流的人。所以基本上，只要有机会，我就会用一种非常独特的方式来衡量时间。这是我个人的时间哲学。时间不是用日历或时钟来衡量的东西。时间是某种东西——它是你在特定空间中获得的一系列经验和创造的价值。例如，10年后，你可以用10年来衡量时间。但是有些人可以在一年内完成很多事情，而其他人通常需要20年才能完成。那么这里的时间是什么呢?所以对我来说，时间不是常规意义。 I think time is simply the experience you can track. So how I measure my success in every professional journey: I look at what is my experience and what is the value I am creating and the time when I realize that my value creation has reached my potential, that I don’t think I would do any more disruptive shifts. I would only do incremental shifts. I tried to look for the next adventure, or more often than not, the next adventure comes towards me. So, that’s how I was. It’s like the teacher coming to visit you when you already have a student, right? The right teacher shows up when the student is ready. So I was in Cincinnati. I didn’t know even Proctor and Gamble was there in Cincinnati. People would not believe me if I say that, but it is the truth. I’m not from Ohio. I am from India. So I don’t know the geography or the, who are the big players in which city in Ohio. So then I ended up in Cincinnati. I didn’t even have a clue Proctor and Gamble was there. So I ended up looking for a post-doc. And then as life would take me, I went from that and did a post-doc in Ohio State, then came back to Proctor again. And Proctor, I worked there for a couple of years, learned a lot. Amazing learning ground. Then Proctor gave me the opportunity to relocate to Singapore and build something in Singapore. Learn a lot and deliver some business and gain more gains within the business. Then move to India again in Proctor and Gamble. Then luck would happen. I will not begin. Companies wanted to hire me for succession planning and I moved there and spent a couple of years. And since I also had moved off from the United States I wanted to come back and L’Oreal had an opening to come back and that’s how I came back to L’Oreal. So all along, it’s just the right opportunity and the right timing. Things automatically fell in place.

凯蒂[00:05:46]您认为世界各地的创新文化有何不同?因为您在多个国家都有研发的经历。

创新者与过程创新

湿婆[00:05:56]我认为，首先也是最重要的是，在我看来，全球范围内，有两个基本的创新体系。一是制度创新。另一个我叫它，我用一个印度术语，一个印度术语叫小聪明。不，在英语中没有相同的词，只是你能听到他用英语叫。也许——本·富兰克林是最好的行话实践者。“让它工作。”“没关系。”所以我认为本·富兰克林是西方世界小聪明的支持者。它的发音是“you got”。所以只有两种创新。 One is the “make it work” philosophy. The other one is a process. Innovation is a process. So if I look at every country in the world, each country automatically falls into their own definitions of innovation and they can be classified within these two segments. And it is, interestingly, very much tied to their food. So if you – if you eat the way in which people prepare food and eat food tells you whether they are a process driven culture or whether they are a jugaad driven culture. So, for example, it is a certain way. So the food, there is a certain way you eat it and they’re very picky about all of that, that’s naturally a process-centric culture. Easily you can classify Japan and certain aspects of China, certain parts of China, some European cultures, and they all fall into this very process-centricity. This is the way to hold the knife. This is the way to hold the fork. And that’s how you have to eat it. And that’s a – that is culture’s radical process domination is very vicious. And here comes in the United States. I think the United States is not the best country of jugaad. Hey, I don’t care about how you eat the pigs in Italy. We just go look and pick it up in our hands and eat it. So you just make it work. It was kind of a mindset. And this is broad to the trends in innovation. But the key difference for me is how do they come along together? The process innovation is important for you to scale up the business, scale up the value of the innovation and the messy part. A jugaad is required for the creativity. So whichever country has the messy part, the creativity is very high. For example, India. India is a – it’s a very naturally jugaad land because you have to make it work. There is always a shortage of resources in one form or the other. The population is big. It’s a wealthy nation. But just because of the population, the small. So you have to make it work within that. So the constraint puts you under a lot of pressure to make contraptions that work in a very quick and dirty way. And it makes it work. But when you scale it up, you need to then add a process. That is when you can control the quality and give you the correct output for innovation. So broadly speaking, the globe can be divided into two. Between jugaad and process. But for me, an amalgamation of the two together is what creates the biggest of innovations.

凯蒂[00:08:40]我看得出来

凯蒂[00:08:41]而且，你知道，在这个播客中，我们最感兴趣的是围绕创新讲故事和交流，以及讲故事如何帮助加快变革的步伐。那么你认为不同的讲故事技巧在一个以过程为导向的文化和它的创新方法而不是小聪明的文化中是突出的吗?

讲故事如何改变创新者

湿婆[00:09:06]绝对可能。让我从故事的关键开始。讲故事最重要的部分是你告诉自己的故事。每天早上，不管你喜不喜欢，你实际上都在给自己讲故事，大部分是潜意识的，因为我们已经养成了一个习惯，就是给自己讲一个故事。“我又高又棕。我知道，我知道。我很瘦，我很重，我很灵活。我不是…"所有这些都是你对自己说的故事，我相信这是从很小的时候开始的，因为我的祖母给我看天空，说"嘿，那是星座"真的，星座在那里不存在。这个故事说的是她只是把随机的一组记号联系起来然后证明它看起来像一个大勺子。 So you call him the Dipper, so that is – so you create a story for yourself.

凯蒂mm hm。

湿婆如果我真的把这些经历放进电脑里并以经历的形式储存起来，那就没有故事了，那就不是人类了。所以我们必须将这些体验整合在一起。然后马赛克就形成了一个形象这个形象就是你随身携带的故事。而我们都从孩子到成人，再到老年，有着各种各样的故事和回忆。其中有一半是谎言，顺便说一下，大多数故事都是谎言，这意味着它们是无伤大雅的，谎言它们并没有恶意。但这些都是以后的生活。丹尼尔·戈尔曼尽职尽责地称之为，这是至关重要的，简单的真理，对吧?你得告诉自己这些照片。所以说到创新，你会得到同样的东西。当你把四五个数据点放在你面前时，你是在以某种方式把它们联系在一起来讲述故事。 You can put – take the same set of data points and tell three or four different types of stories and which story you’ll say and which story you act upon – telling is one thing. Then you follow with an action on the story. That is what will determine how successful you are for your innovation model.

湿婆[〇点10分59秒]而且回来的jugaad过程，创新的过程。这些故事有很大的不同。过程总是寻找故障模式。该jugaad看起来总是乐观。所以，这两者之间一个非常根本的区别。该过程，以防止有故障，它的存在使之有效。说我不会失去我的时间不能只是另一种形式。我不会失败中失去了我的品质。这就是过程是为。这是一个失败的防范机制。

凯蒂[00:11:29]这个观点也很好。这是为了降低风险，对吧?

湿婆[00:11:33]是的,没错。所以这种缓解是整个过程的想法。让我们等待扩展，你需要这个过程。然而，如果你想到小聪明，它就全是幻想。你在用我没有的方式幻想。就像当我看着混凝土被倒进一个收缩的小圆柱体里来阻挡水，在里面建立一个特殊的柱子或梁——在一小块土地里。我只是在想象，哦，这意味着-我甚至没有想过水和空气是否会以同样的方式运动，如果氧和水的大小相同-我的意思是，它们的差异或变化。我不关心物理和化学因为这是信仰和想象的飞跃。也就是说，如果在某种程度上人们可以把它应用到建筑中，为什么他们不能把它放进玻璃杯里，那种信仰的飞跃?这更多的是关于一个球迷——几乎是一种奇妙的乐观主义。 And that is what is the story that you’ve got to focus on when you are looking at creative aspects of animation.

凯蒂[00:12:32]因此真的利用能够表达这种创造性，未来主义，机会主义的故事情节，以及思考避免风险并创造一个关于真正，过程和可行性的叙述。真的，这两者的平衡对创新故事至关重要。

湿婆[00:12:54]绝对。在世界各地的旅行中，在世界各地和拥有如此多的文化 - 超过65个国家，这是如此有趣。所以我现在在我的职业生涯中与我一起工作，我可以告诉，比如，它很迷人。他们来自哪里。人们自动倾向于一种或其他风格。通常在非常棒的创造性方面的人是那些挣扎着扩大的人和人们真正善于扩大的人，那些正在努力幻想和幻想的人，很少有人 - 好吧，我称之为二手怀抱他们中间的人们可以做一点点两者。这些人是 - 基本上，集成商。它们是两个极端和组织的成功之间的桥梁取决于你在中间有多少人，以及你对另一个四肢的人有多少人。您需要在所有三个之间进行精细平衡。

凯蒂[00:13:50]你有什么建议?我敢肯定，很多利益相关者、创新社区的领导者和工程师都在听这个播客，把自己置身于这个故事之中。因此，在创新方法上，他们要么倾向于以过程为导向，要么就是小聪明。

创新者和机会

凯蒂好的。所以从小聪明的角度来说，更未来主义和机会主义。我认为我们正置身于这个故事之中。对于小聪明型的创新者，你有什么建议，帮助他们讲述创新故事，用他们不知道的方式思考创新，他们可以利用自己的创造力。但也要记住，现实主义是他们的想法所需要的。

湿婆[○点14分41秒]这是两种情况，即你想使你的创新阶段。例如，我现在在预先研究管理十分上游审计活动。我们在非常前期工作的工作很多。在我以前的工作，我管理一个工厂，所以我是品质的公司负责人。所以我不能在其中两个地方都适用同样的原则。我不想在工厂jugaad。我想在一家工厂减少jugaad，因为我不希望沿途的即兴。相反，喜欢，做一个玩意儿。是的，它可以作为一个权宜之计来完成。当有拉线停止，现在就可以暂时把一些回磁带并使其正常工作。 That’s okay for a day. If I have a plan clearly to get the socket out and then do a low cost analysis and put the process in place to prevent those failures. However, when they come to very early phase experimentation, I cannot paralyze myself thinking about the process involving the scale-up and the efficiencies and the losses – that really paralyzed me. So every stage of innovation we need to look at the closest probability analysis. If you do this kind of jugaad, what are the risks and what’s the probability? Same way if you do this jugaad in the downstream process, in the scale upstair situation, what are the risks and what are the probability of the risks happening? And once you are very flexible, you’re agile, you have to be dexterous to go between the two extremes. So what I have tried to develop all my career, is try to be in the center and a – more like me to be reactive or responsive to whichever side the particular problem is and the question is. So I think having a very centrist mindset is really useful. That would be one of the key advice. And the second thing is to be very comfortable with – with changing – is changing your strategy from jugaad to process, because the problem belongs, as the maturity of the problem was and the mistake of the problem as it was. Sometimes the stakes of the problem is very high. Sometimes it is not. And that changes along the course of the problem solving. So key is flexibility and populate your team with two types of people: those that have the jugaad mindset and those who have the process mindset, and maintain the active tension between the two mindsets. It’s very important to keep the healthy tension between the two main points.

凯蒂这很有道理。

凯蒂[00:17:06]我也在想，这是一个非常有趣的寓言，说明了我们在企业层面上看到的致力于创新的大公司，以及创业公司。我们可以把他们分成两大阵营:初创企业体现的是小聪明思维模式而企业组织体现的是过程思维模式。所以你能不能谈一下-你是否看到了在未来的相似之处-我们作为地区，我们作为一个世界，真的在努力平衡这两方面并创造合作和风险机会。

湿婆[00:17:42]这是个有趣的问题我认为你提出了一个非常，非常有趣的观察，你说对了:当你试图从零开始建立一些东西，并试图设定一种方式，你没有投票权:过程是什么?因为. .如果你的名片上写着你是首席执行官，但如果你的公司只有两三个人，你也可能是办公室的看门人。所以，所以，你只是让它工作。事实上，这种灵活性能支付你的账单，也能让你确立自己的地位。然后你开始担心体重秤。但是是什么让你从2到3个人的公司起步，让我们说，你让它成为一个300人的公司。你不能再做清洁工的工作了，因为除此之外，你还有更多的附加价值。这并不是说做一个看门人的工作有任何不足。 But – but it is just to say that like you can hire somebody and give them a job to do that and you can take care of it. So you are absolutely right, as the organization’s complexity evolves, specialization starts. It is actually nothing unusual. This is exactly what happened in the industrial revolution. Initially there were – a generalist and then specialization emerged and then the – the generalization came back once again. It’s a cycle between specialization and generalization. Even Einstein’s relativity theory. He first had the general theory of relativity before he had the special theory of relativity. And – but in reality, when he was able to establish the mathematical proof, he was not able to do it in the same order. He actually first had the special theory of relativity, because he was up late, what would be the particular photoelectric effect? Then he wanted to expand from that and then he built onto the other gravity modules and then he had the general theory of relativity. So the tour continues. You go from specialization to generalization. And what is interesting is the big corporation, which survives maximum shocks such as the Great Recession or the Great Depression of the 1930s. They are the ones which had a confined jugaad. So in other words, they somehow have codified the mindset of jugaad. The company itself will have a massive restructural process in place. But there will be some wildcards and take the company between the allowed back to zero. And if you take any company, even if you take the Good to Great analysis of Jim Collins’ book, you can see very clearly that certain of the companies that had this flexibility of both process and jugaad had a very significant advantage. My one, you know, with a lot of the legalities and the liabilities and all those generalization of policies, we have put ourselves way too much on the process train, especially in the Western world. While I’m not against this because they are bad for a safety reason, but more often than not, it’s a knee jerk reaction after a couple of safety incidents. There’s so many extra protections and stuff I put in place for every little thing and I ask myself, like, what happens? So you are so constrained that you can’t even try very little deviation from anything? And unless we really released those constraints and balanced the risk versus probability in a very smart way, I think our rate of innovation will start to stagnate and it will not really grow. And what is paradoxical to me is many of the developing countries which are trying to move into the forefront, they are also not able to come up with because they are on the other end of the spectrum. They completely lack any processes. So they believe that everything can be done by “on the go” kind of things. And that doesn’t work. So this is where we stand in smaller organizations. Yes, there is a lot of jugaad, but they need to start building in processes, not just thinking today about 200, 300 people. They may want to think about what happens when they have a 2,000 people workforce or what happens when their consumer base goes from mere 200,000 to two million or five million consumers or customers. And that is how the processes have to be in line, a way of improving. It’s a continuous implement, that is the key. It should be the continuous implement – implement of the process that jugaad should have some room to claim the smallest skill and venue and deploying it in the larger scheme. That is less of a jugaad, not zero, and more of process.

凯蒂[00:21:58]在欧莱雅和那个品牌部门内部，你是如何平衡的?你能告诉我们关于你正在进行的一些计划或项目，以及你在创新团队中使用阶段门流程的方式吗?

湿婆[00:22:13]我可以和欧莱雅的灵魂交谈。欧莱雅实际上是一家在某种程度上平衡了jugaad和流程的公司。这可能要追溯到创始人尤金·舒勒（Eugène Schueller），他自己也是一名化学家，但不知何故，尽管他是一名化学家，但他始终保持着自己的实验室。尽管他成为了一家公司的首席执行官，当时这家公司的规模达到了八千九百亿美元，呃欧元，或者说是法兰克币，在20世纪40年代的那些日子里，他已经拥有，那时，他仍然在练习，在实验室里呆着。他过去经常来实验室。所以在实验室里，他保持着jugaad的心态。当他在经营业务时，他处于流程思维中。因此，我认为，自从公司在一百一十年前成立以来，它就一直存在于公司的DNA中，并在今天欣然屹立。我认为这在公司里仍然很重要。但我肯定地说，jugaad在公司的某些部分比公司的其他部分有一点优势。我们不断努力的是找到一个平衡点。我们不叫它jugaad，这只是我使用的术语，因为我来自印度，我是这个术语的忠实粉丝。我希望我能使它更受欢迎，因为据我所知，在任何其他语言中，都没有与之对等的语言。我认为在我的高级研究中，我们的目标是找到未来的材料——比如五年，十年后的未来，保存材料，将电子系统集成到数字环境中。他们会怎么做？对你的环境反应非常灵敏，可以使用这些材料。因此，当我们想要测试这种材料时，我们迫不及待地要在这个过程中测试它，因为这个过程涉及到人类。你必须通过安全检查和很多事情。所以我们——而且我们对根本不做动物试验非常严格。那么，我们如何提出创造性的解决方案呢？因此，首先，在我们开始列出很多并在实际过程中测试它们之前，我们必须在发布产品之前测试它们。这就是很多jugaad派上用场的地方。我们可以和一些代孕者一起练习，使用一些非常有趣的技巧，并在交易中以更便宜的价格对它们进行真正的测试。我们如何快速失败？我们失败得很快。你可以从一次失败的实验中获得最大的收获。我们如何设计那个实验？这就是jugaad心态对我们帮助很大的地方。

凯蒂绝对是。我同意你的看法。这个词非常有用，我喜欢你从一种文化中借用它，你试图放大它的存在。我认为你应该写一本关于这个术语的书。

湿婆[00:24:53]已经有一本书了。

湿婆[00:24:55]牛津大学的一位教授已经写了一本书，书名是《小聪明创新》

湿婆[00:25:00]但我确实计划写一本关于这个话题的书，因为他们对这个词有一些误解，所以并没有放弃真正来自印度的目的，这将如何实现呢?但是也许有一天当我有时间的时候，我应该坐下来写作;你是对的。

利用创新者和创新团队的故事

凯蒂[00:25:18]所以告诉我们未来的建筑材料你如何在你的创新团队中发挥讲故事的作用?你觉得故事在调动小聪明和心态方面发挥了作用吗?

湿婆[00:25:35]我可能认为那都是故事这不仅仅是讲故事。这是所有的故事。为什么?因为我们如何进行这项工作，我们需要来自世界各地的教授的出版物。我们去申请专利，这是五年前，数据是可用的，美国批准了大约1400万到1500万项专利，这是一个疯狂的专利数量。所以没有人能从逻辑上理解这些专利。你唯一要做的就是，你可以说，嘿，这个公司在这个时候申请这个专利是什么?也许他们正试图在我们不知情的情况下推出一款产品。”我们只是讲了这个故事。 I just ended up killing a story, that is a product conceived, there is a consumer benefit, there is a market for it. That’s why this company has invested so much money to make some eight or nine patents.

湿婆[00:26:26]所以当我们看信息并把它们联系在一起时，是故事帮助我们理解。是这些故事帮助了我们;我们假设。我们不叫它们故事，我们叫它们假设。假设，这只是一个阴谋。是的,他们的故事。所以你在测试这个情节是否真实。所以，在每个阶段，并不是你的知识能拯救你。知识是历史。知识是通过。 Knowledge is all about what we already knew about. And what allows us to further knowledge, it’s actually imagination. And without stories, you cannot have room for imagination. So I tell my two teams very often, I am very careful about my words when I talk with them. I ask them, “what do you think about this idea?” Next I ask them, “what do you feel you could do with this idea?” So there is a very big difference between the two; when I’m talking signs and crosses, that is thinking, and when I’m talking imagination and storytelling, that is feeling. So, it’s little that I have never seen someone make a breakthrough. So in fact, when I interview candidates, I look for one key trait: how are they able to put their technical knowledge into a story? And it’s very important.

湿婆[00:27:42]如果他们不能以一种非常连贯的方式做到这一点，不能在逻辑和故事之间来回切换，我认为他们还没有充分掌握他们的技术。

凯蒂[00:27:54]我想听到的,我认为,一些例子——或者,我知道你可能不能分享特定的,你知道的,项目或原型或概念,但你能分享一个时刻有人在你的团队在他们之间的数据流的能力和证据和他们交流的方式吗?

湿婆[0点28分十六秒]有，我们做了一个产品的事件，我们做了一个原型，辩论的是，这台样机，它可能不是足够稳定封装的某种形式。所以定期的工程思维会说，哎，拿这五种，六种不同的套餐，会使实验设计，创造的所有限制和组合矩阵，并把它们并把它们进入了人们的模具，然后再检查经常。所以这是一个非常宽松的心态，它会采取几乎像60周或70的实验做。但是，但是，是谁一个非常有趣的故事说，哎来到了球队成员之一，其实我已经看到特定种类的这种材料包装常用的，在这种化学。所以，我想象有一个很好的理由，他们做到这一点。因此，可能这种物质是与兼容，这是不是与此兼容。那么，为什么我们不只是做两者之间的二进制测试？和好了，我们从70实验设计去只有两个或三个实验。

凯蒂哇。

湿婆这种信念的飞跃是非常强大的。是的。如果他们失败了，那又怎样?他们只损失了一天。这是至少。但他们至少给了自己一张那么大的彩票。如果他们赢了，他们就赢了头奖。

凯蒂00:29:32没错。是的。是的。所以是借款能力一个洞察力从另一个,另一个产品或包装设计,并应用,思考这个特殊的挑战,和有一个精益思维同时说,你知道,60或70实验——是太多了。我们还能做什么?

谦逊与创新

湿婆[00:29:57]是的，这是一种谦卑的形式，对吧？因为它并不是以我知道的信念开始。我可以设计它。我有博士学位。这并不是说。相反，很多人都这样做。他们是如何看待它的？这是一家杂货店。芯片公司如何在此特定纸质套餐上工作？啊，它的芯片。 You know, it is sold for a dollar. Come on, you know, that’s not how you look at it. Same way you travel in Thailand and you see how they made a package instantly out of palm leaf, or some other leaf, and wrapped some momos or something for you to eat. You know, that’s – that’s a great observation. If you are a very good, curious scientist, you observe these little things in various places and see how you can play some role. It’s more like, you know, I’m a mechanic and a car mechanic. A good car mechanic will constantly update the tool box. But he or she will not care about who’s going to bring what car to the store. They will just keep updating the tool box. And when the car comes, they just do a permutation, combination and two experiments and guesses. They will use the tool and try to solve the problem.

[00:31:05]倾斜的类似问题 - 继续倾向于这一思考。您对创新领导者的建议有什么建议，因为他们试图确定真正有能力将技术信息转化为清晰或引人注目的故事情节的团队候选人？

多样性在创新者

我明白了。不知何故，现代招聘过程已经开始无意识地自我选择雇用具有相似文化和社会经济背景的人。因此，大型大学的合规性也是如此。所以如果我们开始筛选这个人，你知道，嘿，这个人来自常春藤盟校，所以一定很好。这就是起点。我认为我们需要把这种模式扔进垃圾堆，首先，因为我们需要从一个非常全面的角度来看待候选人，并与与与你截然不同的人相处。这非常重要。对我来说，多样性不仅仅体现在性别、种族、肤色、国籍或其他方面。我认为这是关于思维过程的多样性，处理问题的多样性。因此，寻找思维多样化的人。接受思维的多样性是非常非常不舒服的，因为大多数情况下，人们之间的分歧不是种族，而是思维的多样性。人们对想法不同的人感到非常不舒服——

凯蒂对

湿婆——当人们的想法开始变得非常相似时，创新就会受到影响。

凯蒂是的！

湿婆同质化思维是创新的敌人。这就是为什么当我看简历时，我会告诉他们，嘿，甚至不要谈论你的学校，它有多好，你的背景是什么，你的血统是什么。所有这些都是毫无用处的信息。招聘团队，招聘经理，应该非常注意这种偏见。我们每个人都有偏见，我们必须非常警惕这种社会经济地位的偏见。这是非常悲伤和有趣的。有特定习惯的人会说，我带它去吃晚餐假设这个人的社会经济背景非常低不知道某种餐桌礼仪。这将对候选人不利。不幸的是，是以一种非常无意识的方式。我们需要小心避免偏见。

凯蒂[00:33:28]我认为现在比以往任何时候都重要，在2020年这里，至少在美国，拥抱并尝试理解不同观点的人可能比以往任何时候都更重要。

湿婆绝对地。

凯蒂[00:33:41]这也适用于创新。

凯蒂[00:33:43]当然，它适用于我们作为一个社会所能取得的任何变化或方式。所以我很感激你的建议。这是一个很好的分享观点。

湿婆谢谢你！

凯蒂Siva，你知道，从创新者的角度来说，你有什么其他建议想和大家分享关于如何授权他们来讲述有效的创新故事吗?

利用创造力和谦逊进行创新

湿婆[00:34:11]对我来说，第一件事是:承认这个故事并不是科学上的完美之作。还要承认故事中有一些非事实的内容。当他们停止讲故事的时候，尤其是在创新和科学领域，他们中的大多数人都会陷入麻烦，因为他们没有给出这样的声明。这一点非常重要。本免责声明之所以重要，并不是因为任何法律或专业原因。首先，这是为了我们自己，因为我们将自己从我所能看到的故事和我将要打破的圣杯假设的约束中解放出来。因为如果不打破圣杯的假设，你就永远不会有创新。首先，允许自己这样做是非常重要的。第二，保持好奇心和谦逊。和谦卑。 I don’t mean to say that “talk less” say that “I am meek,” “I am weak,” or using “we” in the place of “I;” that is not humility. Humility is willingness to be corrected by anybody and willingness to learn from anybody. And that is very important. And staying curious, you can – you can learn and pick up ideas from anywhere around you, anywhere in your vacation, in mine, in the farmer’s market, in their village in China. In some parts of Thailand, you can pick it up from anywhere and challenge – travel alone to visit different cultures in time with them and then look at it. Don’t go and tell me something nonsensical in Asia. Oh, I found a McDonald’s. I really found the real food. Hey, come on. You know, that’s not the way you express your humility in the first place, you know?

凯蒂这是正确的。

湿婆[00:35:55]这是一种根本的傲慢。如果你想成为一名优秀的创新者，就必须把它关掉。所以我想只有这些指导方针。我不会说任何人丑，因为我——因为傲慢并不是件好事。所以我不想听起来像那样。它只是一个思考的过程，只是一个框架。

凯蒂00:36:14没错。是的,当然。这是——这是很好的建议关于谦卑的事实未必是不发言或不添加你的声音,但它是愿意采取纠正或采取反馈和往心里去真正理解和价值别人的意见和观点。

湿婆mm hm。

凯蒂湿婆，我很感激能在播客上和你进行这段对话。是令人难以置信的小聪明,了解这些不同的心态可以帮助我们真正理解我们的倾向是创新者和我们如何storytell放大这些倾向或试图在他们工作的人可能有不同的方法和对创新思维。非常感谢你来到播客。

湿婆不客气

你可以收听更多的创新故事播客。

*采访不是对个人或企业的认可。