讲故事如何用L'Oréal的Siva Muthukrishnan改变创新者

本期节目由讲故事的训练数据雷竞技raybet提现来自Unt雷竞技电竞竞猜old Content and Data+Science。通过学习数据可视化和技术讲故事的最佳实践，将数据转换为强大的可视化故事。无论你是PowerBI还是Tableau的员工——或者只是想更好地交流你的数据——这个研讨会都会激发你去发现数据背后的故事。了解更多在这里。

凯蒂[00]我们今天的嘉宾是湿婆Muthukrishnan。他是欧莱雅高级研究的助理副总裁。湿婆，我真的很高兴今天跟大家谈谈创新故事。

湿婆[00:00:12]我也是，凯蒂。谢谢你邀请我。

凯蒂00:00:14绝对。你能告诉我你个人的创新故事是从哪里开始的吗?

湿婆[00:00:19]我想——你知道，我来自印度。和发明一样，首先，发明和创新之间可疑的区别，发明只是发现如何使某些东西工作。创新是如何使用它们并以某种形式将其货币化。所以创新在我很小的时候就开始了因为当我们发现如何让一些东西工作的时候，我们总是要有资源来稳定这种材料。所以我要讲一个科学的例子因为我不想给出个人的例子。从街头的角度来看，这是相当务实的。科学地说，我当时在印度的实验室里。我的硕士学位毕业后在中国待了一段时间。这个实验室没有专门的吹玻璃工，但我们有一些，你知道，最多我们有一些实验要进行。我没受过这方面的训练。 So I came up with some contraptions that would work and get things done. And in this process, it was more of the creativity. And in fact, the story I told myself, then you can do it this way because somebody did a similar kind of a contraption to make something else work. That’s what actually brought this. And that would be my first example that I made a very sophisticated scientific experiment that would have required a very complex set of very expensive setup. I was able to make it work with a really cheap set of regular arcs and blast pieces available in the lab, glass tubes and stuff, and made it work and created something very interesting in making nano clusters made out of platinum.

凯蒂[0时02分01秒]哇，难以置信。所以你看到的东西类似发生 - 你说这是在相邻的行业和你的排序建模解决方案的？

湿婆[0时02分11秒]对，没错。这真的不是相邻的行业;它是陶器。基本上，如果你认为你将如何制定具体的非常高的水淹区域。他们创造一个干燥的地方，通过使用干旱带任何可用在这方面，在罗津结构。这是他们做什么。所以他们能够保持距离水分为临时时候，他们浇混凝土下来，让它凝固。所以，同样我在想，如果我有过一个惰性环境，而不是在等待着什么混合两种试剂，它真的不是。为什么他们不能简单地填补这个气球用氩气，然后用一管，把它在一起，并允许氩气流量和混合并反应的工作？显然这是有机化学家做了所有的时间很平常的事。 But at the time, I was not trained in organic chemistry in the lab. So it was funny that when I showed that to my friends in organic chemistry, they said they were doing it all the time.

凯蒂[00:03:09]当然,当然。但是跳出固有的思维模式，运用一些创造力帮助你为你想要的目的重新创造它。

湿婆绝对地。

凯蒂那么是什么让你到奥莱雅？

创新者与时间经验

湿婆[00:03:22]嗯，这是一个非常复杂的故事，所以我不会进入它。我是一个与生活一起流动的人。所以基本上，每当有机会时，我都以非常独特的方式测量时间。这是我个人的时间哲学。时间不是使用日历或时钟测量的东西。时间是 - 它是您获得的一组体验，您在给定的空间内创建的值。因此，例如，在10年内，您可以致电10年作为时间的衡量标准。但随后有人可以在一年内实现很多事情，这可能只有其他人在20年内可以成为可能。那么在这里是时候了吗？所以对我来说，时间不是常规意义。 I think time is simply the experience you can track. So how I measure my success in every professional journey: I look at what is my experience and what is the value I am creating and the time when I realize that my value creation has reached my potential, that I don’t think I would do any more disruptive shifts. I would only do incremental shifts. I tried to look for the next adventure, or more often than not, the next adventure comes towards me. So, that’s how I was. It’s like the teacher coming to visit you when you already have a student, right? The right teacher shows up when the student is ready. So I was in Cincinnati. I didn’t know even Proctor and Gamble was there in Cincinnati. People would not believe me if I say that, but it is the truth. I’m not from Ohio. I am from India. So I don’t know the geography or the, who are the big players in which city in Ohio. So then I ended up in Cincinnati. I didn’t even have a clue Proctor and Gamble was there. So I ended up looking for a post-doc. And then as life would take me, I went from that and did a post-doc in Ohio State, then came back to Proctor again. And Proctor, I worked there for a couple of years, learned a lot. Amazing learning ground. Then Proctor gave me the opportunity to relocate to Singapore and build something in Singapore. Learn a lot and deliver some business and gain more gains within the business. Then move to India again in Proctor and Gamble. Then luck would happen. I will not begin. Companies wanted to hire me for succession planning and I moved there and spent a couple of years. And since I also had moved off from the United States I wanted to come back and L’Oreal had an opening to come back and that’s how I came back to L’Oreal. So all along, it’s just the right opportunity and the right timing. Things automatically fell in place.

凯蒂[00:05:46]您认为创新文化在全球范围内不同，因为您在研究和开发中有这样一种洲际经验？

创新者与过程创新

湿婆[00:05:56]我想首先，在全球范围内，有两个基本系统，在全球范围内创新。一个是系统创新。其他人我会打电话 - 我会使用印第安人，一个名为jugaad的印度学期。不，英语没有平等的单词，只是你可以听到他可以用英语拨打电话。也许 - 本富兰克林是最好的行话从业者。“让它起作用。”“没关系。”所以本富兰克林，我会称之为西方世界的朱瓦德的支持者。这对“你得到了”是明显的。所以只有两种创新。 One is the “make it work” philosophy. The other one is a process. Innovation is a process. So if I look at every country in the world, each country automatically falls into their own definitions of innovation and they can be classified within these two segments. And it is, interestingly, very much tied to their food. So if you – if you eat the way in which people prepare food and eat food tells you whether they are a process driven culture or whether they are a jugaad driven culture. So, for example, it is a certain way. So the food, there is a certain way you eat it and they’re very picky about all of that, that’s naturally a process-centric culture. Easily you can classify Japan and certain aspects of China, certain parts of China, some European cultures, and they all fall into this very process-centricity. This is the way to hold the knife. This is the way to hold the fork. And that’s how you have to eat it. And that’s a – that is culture’s radical process domination is very vicious. And here comes in the United States. I think the United States is not the best country of jugaad. Hey, I don’t care about how you eat the pigs in Italy. We just go look and pick it up in our hands and eat it. So you just make it work. It was kind of a mindset. And this is broad to the trends in innovation. But the key difference for me is how do they come along together? The process innovation is important for you to scale up the business, scale up the value of the innovation and the messy part. A jugaad is required for the creativity. So whichever country has the messy part, the creativity is very high. For example, India. India is a – it’s a very naturally jugaad land because you have to make it work. There is always a shortage of resources in one form or the other. The population is big. It’s a wealthy nation. But just because of the population, the small. So you have to make it work within that. So the constraint puts you under a lot of pressure to make contraptions that work in a very quick and dirty way. And it makes it work. But when you scale it up, you need to then add a process. That is when you can control the quality and give you the correct output for innovation. So broadly speaking, the globe can be divided into two. Between jugaad and process. But for me, an amalgamation of the two together is what creates the biggest of innovations.

凯蒂[0点08分40秒]我可以看到。

凯蒂[00:08:41]而且，你知道，在这个播客中，我们最感兴趣的是围绕创新讲故事和交流，以及讲故事如何帮助加快变革的步伐。那么你认为不同的讲故事技巧在一个以过程为导向的文化和它的创新方法而不是小聪明的文化中是突出的吗?

如何讲故事变换创新

湿婆[00:09:06]绝对可能。让我从故事的关键开始。故事最重要的部分是你告诉自己的故事。每天早上，你喜欢它，你实际上是告诉自己的故事，大多是潜意识的，因为我们已经习惯于向自己讲述某个故事的习惯。“我高高而棕色。我 - 我知道。我很瘦，我很重，我很灵活。我不是......“所有这些都是你对自己说的故事，它在童年时开始很年轻，因为我的祖母向我展示了天空，说：”嘿，那是星座。“真的，星座不存在。这是一个故事，她刚刚连接了一个随机的标记，并显示它看起来像个大勺子。 So you call him the Dipper, so that is – so you create a story for yourself.

凯蒂嗯嗯。

湿婆如果我真的把这些经历放进电脑里并以经历的形式储存起来，那就没有故事了，那就不是人类了。所以我们必须将这些体验整合在一起。然后马赛克就形成了一个形象这个形象就是你随身携带的故事。而我们都从孩子到成人，再到老年，有着各种各样的故事和回忆。其中有一半是谎言，顺便说一下，大多数故事都是谎言，这意味着它们是无伤大雅的，谎言它们并没有恶意。但这些都是以后的生活。丹尼尔·戈尔曼尽职尽责地称之为，这是至关重要的，简单的真理，对吧?你得告诉自己这些照片。所以说到创新，你会得到同样的东西。当你把四五个数据点放在你面前时，你是在以某种方式把它们联系在一起来讲述故事。 You can put – take the same set of data points and tell three or four different types of stories and which story you’ll say and which story you act upon – telling is one thing. Then you follow with an action on the story. That is what will determine how successful you are for your innovation model.

湿婆[00:10:59]并回到jugaad流程，创新过程。故事非常不同。该过程始终查找失败模式。Jugaad总是寻求乐观。这是两者之间的一个非常根本的差异。这个过程是为了防止失败，它在那里可以高效。只是另一种形式的说，我不会失去我的时间。我不会失去我的质量。这是一个过程意味着什么。这是一种预防机制。

凯蒂[00:11:29]这个观点也很好。这是为了降低风险，对吧?

湿婆[00:11:33]是的,没错。所以这种缓解是整个过程的想法。让我们等待扩展，你需要这个过程。然而，如果你想到小聪明，它就全是幻想。你在用我没有的方式幻想。就像当我看着混凝土被倒进一个收缩的小圆柱体里来阻挡水，在里面建立一个特殊的柱子或梁——在一小块土地里。我只是在想象，哦，这意味着-我甚至没有想过水和空气是否会以同样的方式运动，如果氧和水的大小相同-我的意思是，它们的差异或变化。我不关心物理和化学因为这是信仰和想象的飞跃。也就是说，如果在某种程度上人们可以把它应用到建筑中，为什么他们不能把它放进玻璃杯里，那种信仰的飞跃?这更多的是关于一个球迷——几乎是一种奇妙的乐观主义。 And that is what is the story that you’ve got to focus on when you are looking at creative aspects of animation.

凯蒂[00:12:32]既要表达富有创意的、未来主义的、机会主义的故事情节，又要考虑如何规避风险，创造一个关于过程和可行性的故事。事实上，两者的平衡对于一个创新故事来说是至关重要的。

湿婆00:12:54绝对。这很有趣，我在世界各地旅行，与超过65个国家的文化合作。和我一起工作的科学家们我能说，这很神奇。不管他们来自哪里。人们会自动地被其中一种或另一种风格所吸引。的人通常是非常奇妙的和创造性的一边是那些努力扩大和很好的人普遍扩大,那些努力幻想有很少人——好吧,我把他们称为怀有二心的人中间可以做一点。这些人本质上是整合者。他们是两个极端之间的桥梁，一个组织的成功取决于有多少人在中间，以及有多少人在其他极端。你需要在这三者之间保持良好的平衡。

凯蒂[〇点13分50秒]你有什么建议吗？我敢肯定，因此多在创新社会利益相关者和领导者和工程师都听了这个播客和亲切的把自己置于这样的叙述之内的。所以，他们要么落在他们的创新方式或jugaad的更注重过程的一面。

创新者和机会

凯蒂好的。所以在jugaad侧，更未来和机会。我认为我们将自己置身于这样的叙述，我们听到它。做什么建议你有面向jugaad创新者，在帮助他们讲故事的创新和思考创新的方式，他们不这样做，他们可以利用他们的创造力方面。但也记住的需要的现实主义通过和他们的想法得到。

湿婆[○点14分41秒]这是两种情况，即你想使你的创新阶段。例如，现在我正在预先研究上游审计活动。我们在非常上游的工作中工作了很多。在我以前的工作中，我正在管理一家工厂，所以我是公司的质量主管。所以我不能在其中两个地方申请相同的原则。我不想要jugaad在一家工厂。我想在一家工厂中最小化Jugaad，因为我不希望沿途的即兴创作。相反，就像，做一个矛盾。是的，可以作为停止测量完成。当有拉线停止时，现在我可以暂时放一些背部磁带并使其工作。 That’s okay for a day. If I have a plan clearly to get the socket out and then do a low cost analysis and put the process in place to prevent those failures. However, when they come to very early phase experimentation, I cannot paralyze myself thinking about the process involving the scale-up and the efficiencies and the losses – that really paralyzed me. So every stage of innovation we need to look at the closest probability analysis. If you do this kind of jugaad, what are the risks and what’s the probability? Same way if you do this jugaad in the downstream process, in the scale upstair situation, what are the risks and what are the probability of the risks happening? And once you are very flexible, you’re agile, you have to be dexterous to go between the two extremes. So what I have tried to develop all my career, is try to be in the center and a – more like me to be reactive or responsive to whichever side the particular problem is and the question is. So I think having a very centrist mindset is really useful. That would be one of the key advice. And the second thing is to be very comfortable with – with changing – is changing your strategy from jugaad to process, because the problem belongs, as the maturity of the problem was and the mistake of the problem as it was. Sometimes the stakes of the problem is very high. Sometimes it is not. And that changes along the course of the problem solving. So key is flexibility and populate your team with two types of people: those that have the jugaad mindset and those who have the process mindset, and maintain the active tension between the two mindsets. It’s very important to keep the healthy tension between the two main points.

凯蒂这是非常有意义的。

凯蒂[0点17分06秒]我也想，这是一个非常有趣的那种比喻为我们所看到的大公司之间在企业层面合作，创新，创业公司也。我们可以排序的把它们放进这两个阵营：即初创体现jugaad心态和企业组织体现的过程中心态。所以你能说一点点 - 你看到排序的同一平行存在的未来是方面 - 我们作为地区，我们作为一个世界，确实试图同时利用和建立伙伴关系和合资企业的机会。

湿婆[00:17:42]这是一个迷人的问题。我觉得你带来了一个非常非常有趣的观察，你是现场的：当你试图从头开始建造一些东西并试图设置一种方式，你没有得到投票：这个过程是什么？因为..如果你的名片可能会说你是首席执行官，但如果你只有两到三个人公司，办公室的门卫也可能很好。所以，所以，它是 - 你只是在做它的工作。事实上，这种灵活性是您的账单，这就是让您建立自己的票据。然后你开始担心规模。但是，你从两个到三个人公司的起点是什么，让我们说，你赚了一家300人公司。由于您可以在添加更多的价值添加，而不是此外，您再也无法执行了Janitor的工作。并非如此，可以少做一个门户的工作。但是 - 但是只是说，就像你可以雇用某人并给他们一份工作，你可以照顾它。 So you are absolutely right, as the organization’s complexity evolves, specialization starts. It is actually nothing unusual. This is exactly what happened in the industrial revolution. Initially there were – a generalist and then specialization emerged and then the – the generalization came back once again. It’s a cycle between specialization and generalization. Even Einstein’s relativity theory. He first had the general theory of relativity before he had the special theory of relativity. And – but in reality, when he was able to establish the mathematical proof, he was not able to do it in the same order. He actually first had the special theory of relativity, because he was up late, what would be the particular photoelectric effect? Then he wanted to expand from that and then he built onto the other gravity modules and then he had the general theory of relativity. So the tour continues. You go from specialization to generalization. And what is interesting is the big corporation, which survives maximum shocks such as the Great Recession or the Great Depression of the 1930s. They are the ones which had a confined jugaad. So in other words, they somehow have codified the mindset of jugaad. The company itself will have a massive restructural process in place. But there will be some wildcards and take the company between the allowed back to zero. And if you take any company, even if you take the Good to Great analysis of Jim Collins’ book, you can see very clearly that certain of the companies that had this flexibility of both process and jugaad had a very significant advantage. My one, you know, with a lot of the legalities and the liabilities and all those generalization of policies, we have put ourselves way too much on the process train, especially in the Western world. While I’m not against this because they are bad for a safety reason, but more often than not, it’s a knee jerk reaction after a couple of safety incidents. There’s so many extra protections and stuff I put in place for every little thing and I ask myself, like, what happens? So you are so constrained that you can’t even try very little deviation from anything? And unless we really released those constraints and balanced the risk versus probability in a very smart way, I think our rate of innovation will start to stagnate and it will not really grow. And what is paradoxical to me is many of the developing countries which are trying to move into the forefront, they are also not able to come up with because they are on the other end of the spectrum. They completely lack any processes. So they believe that everything can be done by “on the go” kind of things. And that doesn’t work. So this is where we stand in smaller organizations. Yes, there is a lot of jugaad, but they need to start building in processes, not just thinking today about 200, 300 people. They may want to think about what happens when they have a 2,000 people workforce or what happens when their consumer base goes from mere 200,000 to two million or five million consumers or customers. And that is how the processes have to be in line, a way of improving. It’s a continuous implement, that is the key. It should be the continuous implement – implement of the process that jugaad should have some room to claim the smallest skill and venue and deploying it in the larger scheme. That is less of a jugaad, not zero, and more of process.

凯蒂[00:21:58]里面L'Oreal和那个品牌师，你如何平衡这个？你知道什么 - 你能告诉我们你正在努力的一些倡议或项目以及你 - 在创新团队内部使用舞台门进程的方法是什么？

湿婆[00:22:13]我可以和欧莱雅的灵魂对话。欧莱雅实际上是一家在某种程度上平衡了小聪明和流程的公司。这可能要追溯到它的创始人，他自己也是个化学家，Eugène Schueller，不知怎么的，虽然他是一个化学家，但他总是维持着自己的实验室。尽管他成为了一家公司的首席执行官当时公司的市值达到了八九百亿欧元，在20世纪40年代，他已经有了，那时他还在实验室里练习。他过去经常来实验室。所以在实验室里，他保持着小聪明的心态。当他在经营企业的时候，他就处于过程思维模式中。所以我认为，自从公司在一百一十年前成立以来，它就一直存在于公司的DNA中，并一直延续到今天。我认为这在公司中仍然存在。但我肯定地说，小聪明在公司的某些领域比其他领域略胜一筹。 And what we are constantly striving, is to find a balance. We don’t call it jugaad, it is just the term I use because I’m coming from India and I’m a big fan of the term. And I wish I would make it more popular because there is no other equal employed in any other language for it, to my knowledge. And I think in my case of advanced research, our goal is to find materials of the future – like five years, 10 years into the future, hold the material, integrate with your electronic systems into your digital environment. How will they do? Very responsive to your environment to be smart of those kinds of material. So here when we want to test this material, we cannot wait to test it in the process because the process involves humans. You have to go through safety clearances and a whole lot of things. So we – and we we are really strict about not doing animal testing at all. So how do we come up with our creative solutions? So, first then, before we started listing a lot and testing them in the– in the real process, which we have to test them before launching a product. So that is where a lot of jugaad comes in handy. We are able to practice it with some surrogates, put some very interesting tricks and in the trade to really test them at a cheaper price. How do we fast failure? We do failure very fast. And you get the maximum learning from a single failed experiment. How do we design that experiment? That is where the jugaad mindset helps us a lot.

凯蒂00:24:41绝对。我同意你的看法。这个词很有帮助，我很喜欢你从一种文化中借用了它，并试图扩大它的存在。我认为你应该写一本关于这个术语的书。

湿婆[○点24分53秒]有一本书了。

湿婆[0点24分55秒]目前，有一本书由牛津大学教授形市内已经写了一本书叫Jugaad创新。

湿婆[00:25:00]但我确实计划写一本关于这个话题的书，因为他们对这个词有一些误解，所以并没有放弃真正来自印度的目的，这将如何实现呢?但是也许有一天当我有时间的时候，我应该坐下来写作;你是对的。

利用创新者和创新团队的故事

凯蒂[00:25:18]所以告诉我们未来的建筑材料你如何在你的创新团队中发挥讲故事的作用?你觉得故事在调动小聪明和心态方面发挥了作用吗?

湿婆[00:25:35]我可能认为这是所有的故事。这不仅仅是讲故事。这都是故事。为什么？因为如何 - 我们如何完成这项工作，我们需要来自世界各地教授的出版物。我们去专利，你知道，这是五年前，我们可以获得数据，美国授予大约大约十四或一百五万专利，这是一个疯狂的专利人数。因此，没有人可以对这些专利进行逻辑意义。你必须做的一个，是你可以说，“嘿，这个特定的公司此时提交了这项专利是什么？可能他们试图推出一个产品，没有我们的知识。“我们刚刚讲述了这个故事。 I just ended up killing a story, that is a product conceived, there is a consumer benefit, there is a market for it. That’s why this company has invested so much money to make some eight or nine patents.

湿婆[00:26:26]所以当我们看信息并把它们联系在一起时，是故事帮助我们理解。是这些故事帮助了我们;我们假设。我们不叫它们故事，我们叫它们假设。假设，这只是一个阴谋。是的,他们的故事。所以你在测试这个情节是否真实。所以，在每个阶段，并不是你的知识能拯救你。知识是历史。知识是通过。 Knowledge is all about what we already knew about. And what allows us to further knowledge, it’s actually imagination. And without stories, you cannot have room for imagination. So I tell my two teams very often, I am very careful about my words when I talk with them. I ask them, “what do you think about this idea?” Next I ask them, “what do you feel you could do with this idea?” So there is a very big difference between the two; when I’m talking signs and crosses, that is thinking, and when I’m talking imagination and storytelling, that is feeling. So, it’s little that I have never seen someone make a breakthrough. So in fact, when I interview candidates, I look for one key trait: how are they able to put their technical knowledge into a story? And it’s very important.

湿婆[00:27:42]如果他们不能以一种非常连贯的方式做到这一点，不能在逻辑和故事之间来回切换，我认为他们还没有充分掌握他们的技术。

凯蒂[00:27:54]我想听到的,我认为,一些例子——或者,我知道你可能不能分享特定的,你知道的,项目或原型或概念,但你能分享一个时刻有人在你的团队在他们之间的数据流的能力和证据和他们交流的方式吗?

湿婆[00:28:16]有一个事件，我们制作了一个产品，我们制作了一个原型，辩论是这种原型，它可能不够稳定，一种形式的包装。因此，常规工程思想会说，嘿，拿这五，六个不同的包装，会做出实验的设计，创造一个矩阵的所有限制和组合，并将它们扔进并将它们放入人民，模具并检查它们经常。所以这是一个非常宽松的心态，几乎可能需要60或70个实验。但是，有一个团队成员们提出了一个非常有趣的故事，嘿，我实际上看到这种常用于这种材料的特殊包装，在这种化学中。所以我想象他们那样有一个好原因。所以，这类材料可能与此兼容，这与此不兼容。那么为什么我们在两者之间做二元测试？嗯，我们从70个实验设计中到了两个或三个实验。

凯蒂哇。

湿婆这种信念的飞跃是非常强大的。是的。如果他们失败了，那又怎样?他们只损失了一天。这是至少。但他们至少给了自己一张那么大的彩票。如果他们赢了，他们就赢了头奖。

凯蒂00:29:32没错。是的。是的。所以是借款能力一个洞察力从另一个,另一个产品或包装设计,并应用,思考这个特殊的挑战,和有一个精益思维同时说,你知道,60或70实验——是太多了。我们还能做什么?

谦卑和创新

湿婆[00:29:57]是的，这是一种谦卑的表现，对吧?因为这并不是从相信我知道开始的。我可以设计它。我有博士学位。这并不是说。相反，很多人会这么做。他们是怎么看的?这里有一家杂货店。芯片公司是如何处理这种特殊的纸包装的?啊,它的芯片。 You know, it is sold for a dollar. Come on, you know, that’s not how you look at it. Same way you travel in Thailand and you see how they made a package instantly out of palm leaf, or some other leaf, and wrapped some momos or something for you to eat. You know, that’s – that’s a great observation. If you are a very good, curious scientist, you observe these little things in various places and see how you can play some role. It’s more like, you know, I’m a mechanic and a car mechanic. A good car mechanic will constantly update the tool box. But he or she will not care about who’s going to bring what car to the store. They will just keep updating the tool box. And when the car comes, they just do a permutation, combination and two experiments and guesses. They will use the tool and try to solve the problem.

[00:31:05]这也是一个类似的问题。当创新领导者试图确定团队候选人是否真正有能力将技术信息转化成清晰或引人注目的故事情节时，你对他们有什么建议?

多样性在创新者

(00:31:26)我明白了。不知怎么的，现代招聘过程已经开始无意识地自我选择，招聘具有相似文化和社会经济背景的人。所以——还有大型大学的整合。如果我们开始筛选这个人，你知道，这个人来自常春藤盟校，所以肯定很好。这就是起点。我认为我们应该抛弃这种模式，首先，因为我们需要从一个非常全面的角度来看待候选人，并且对那些与你截然不同的人感到舒适。这是非常重要的。对我来说，多样性不仅仅是性别、种族、肤色或国籍等等。我认为这是关于思考，思考过程的多样性，处理问题的多样性。所以要找思维多样的人。 And it is very, very uncomfortable to accept the diversity of thinking because most often than not, it is not race which divides people, it is diversity of thinking. People are very uncomfortable with people who think differently –

凯蒂是的。

湿婆——当人们的想法开始变得非常相似时，创新就会受到影响。

凯蒂是的!

湿婆同质化思维是创新的敌人。这就是为什么当我看简历时，我会告诉他们，嘿，甚至不要谈论你的学校，它有多好，你的背景是什么，你的血统是什么。所有这些都是毫无用处的信息。招聘团队，招聘经理，应该非常注意这种偏见。我们每个人都有偏见，我们必须非常警惕这种社会经济地位的偏见。这是非常悲伤和有趣的。有特定习惯的人会说，我带它去吃晚餐假设这个人的社会经济背景非常低不知道某种餐桌礼仪。这将对候选人不利。不幸的是，是以一种非常无意识的方式。我们需要小心避免偏见。

凯蒂[00:33:28]我认为现在比以往任何时候都更多，在2020年，至少在美国，拥抱和试图了解不同观点的人现在比以往任何时候都更重要。

湿婆绝对地。

凯蒂[00:33:41]这也适用于创新。

凯蒂[00:33:43]当然，它适用于我们作为一个社会所能取得的任何变化或方式。所以我很感激你的建议。这是一个很好的分享观点。

湿婆谢谢你。

凯蒂Siva，你知道，从创新者的角度来说，你有什么其他建议想和大家分享关于如何授权他们来讲述有效的创新故事吗?

利用创造力和谦逊进行创新

湿婆[零时34分11秒]我的第一件事是：承认这个故事是不是意味着是一个科学完善的。而且也承认，有很多故事nonfactual内容的某个元素。他们中的大多数陷入困境时，他们停止使用讲故事，尤其是在创新和科学，是因为他们不给这个声明。这是非常重要的。为什么这个声明很重要，不承担任何法律上的原因或职业原因。首先，它是为我们自己，因为我们从我们做我们自己的是什么故事，我可以看到，什么是圣杯假设我要去打破制约释放自己。由于没有打破圣杯假设你永远有创新。因此，首先，允许自己带，这是非常重要的。其次，留下非常好奇和谦逊。和谦逊。 I don’t mean to say that “talk less” say that “I am meek,” “I am weak,” or using “we” in the place of “I;” that is not humility. Humility is willingness to be corrected by anybody and willingness to learn from anybody. And that is very important. And staying curious, you can – you can learn and pick up ideas from anywhere around you, anywhere in your vacation, in mine, in the farmer’s market, in their village in China. In some parts of Thailand, you can pick it up from anywhere and challenge – travel alone to visit different cultures in time with them and then look at it. Don’t go and tell me something nonsensical in Asia. Oh, I found a McDonald’s. I really found the real food. Hey, come on. You know, that’s not the way you express your humility in the first place, you know?

凯蒂这是正确的。

湿婆[00:35:55]这是一种根本的傲慢。如果你想成为一名优秀的创新者，就必须把它关掉。所以我想只有这些指导方针。我不会说任何人丑，因为我——因为傲慢并不是件好事。所以我不想听起来像那样。它只是一个思考的过程，只是一个框架。

凯蒂00:36:14没错。是的,当然。这是——这是很好的建议关于谦卑的事实未必是不发言或不添加你的声音,但它是愿意采取纠正或采取反馈和往心里去真正理解和价值别人的意见和观点。

湿婆嗯嗯。

凯蒂湿婆，我很感激能在播客上和你进行这段对话。是令人难以置信的小聪明,了解这些不同的心态可以帮助我们真正理解我们的倾向是创新者和我们如何storytell放大这些倾向或试图在他们工作的人可能有不同的方法和对创新思维。非常感谢你来到播客。

湿婆别客气。

您可以倾听更多的创新播客故事的更多剧集。

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