与Spora Health | Healthcare Heroes Pt.的Dan Miller一起改革无障碍医疗

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凯蒂:欢迎来到创新的不陈述故事，在那里我们扩大了洞察力，影响和创新的解开故事。由无国界的内容提供支持雷竞技电竞竞猜，我是您的主人，Katie Trauth Taylor。我们今天的客人是丹麦勒。他是Backstage Capital的导师，他是Spora Health的创始人兼首席执行官。丹，我今天很感激你今天在播客。

担：谢谢，凯蒂。我真的很高兴能在这里聊天。

凯蒂:你能告诉我们你个人关于创新的故事吗?

担：是的,当然。所以我认为我的创新故事——我认为推动力可能是美国在线和AIM在90年代中期出现在科技领域。

凯蒂:是的。

担：我是在那里长大的，我想这把我们带到了这里。但有趣的是，我现在进入了人生的一个阶段，在这个阶段我可以开始说这些话了，这很有趣。

凯蒂:这是奇怪的，对。是的，我可能在那里有类似的船。

担：我在新泽西州的东海岸长大，在一个大约一个小时的费城北部，一小时20分钟的纽约市，叫弗莱明顿20分钟。我们在宾夕法尼亚州的新泽西州的一部分。而我只是，我总是我的阿姨称之为忙碌的人。我只是非常活跃，非常有兴趣尽可能地学习。所以关于我在互联网上的时候，我们在小学的电脑实验室，庆幸地，我是第五或六年级，我知道我的父母，你知道，在房子里互联网。我猜我卖得那么好。所以我们不久就有了AOL。之后，我与能够通过我的指尖和键盘遵循我的诡计，并学习并获得任何我好奇的东西。就像从那时起，我被卖掉了。此后不久，我学会了更多的东西的工程方面 - 返回一步 - 我是计算机游戏和视频游戏，一般和游戏，期间。 So I loved to play sports, and when I wasn’t outside being active, playing sports, I was inside playing video games on the computer or on, you know, a gaming system. And so I had a group of friends that we used to play computer games a lot together, and we ended up building our own Alienware computer just to make sure that we could have the fastest computer possible with the best video graphic card that was out at the moment and that we could modulate what the performance was of the computer. And I also at around that time started to get into kind of software development, quote unquote, just by programming my first role-playing game, this was around sixth grade. And this was the — this process over these few years was the impetus of me really understanding my love as a consumer for innovation and technology, but also the very first glimpses of what would end up being a career and actually creating these technologies. But it all just started around curiosity, for myself.

凯蒂:这是令人难以置信的。现在，您已经成为几个不同的加速器计划的一部分。是你 - 你有一些目前的消息吗？OnDeck， 也？那是新的吗？

担：是的，是的。所以，ondeck是一个托特加速器。因此，上个月，我决定距离atheros并开始为我正在努力的下一家公司创造种子，称为Spora Health。而且，Spora Health将成为初级保健网络，也是一个虚拟服务，也提供了我们在以文化为中心的护理定义的内容。因此，我们正在设计医疗保健，特别是初级保健，专为美国的颜色人士而设计。And so our goal is to address racial and ethnic healthcare disparities across the Latinx, Black American, South Asian and East Asian American communities in particular, but we’re not exclusionary to any other groups, but we are very inclusive of these groups and are uniquely designing experiences for them with the hypothesis of if we do so, we’ll be able to address significant health care disparities.

凯蒂:丹，真是难以置信。

担：谢谢你！是的，这是一个非常大的雄心勃勃的目标，所以现在是我的工作，并作为其中的一部分加入ondeck是为了随着时间的推移使机会变得更加冒险。因此，第一次迭代将是虚拟的，专注于为黑人美国社区提供专门的介意计划和营养计划。然后我们将从那里学习并弄清楚我们是否应该水平或垂直成长。但是ondeck和我们使用的其他一些程序应该让我们更容易地制作这些决定。

凯蒂:你能告诉我们什么激励你开始孢子的健康？

担：是的。所以，Spora Health的动力更多的是一个过程，而不是一个特定事件的刺激。我在15年和16年创办的上一家公司也是在医疗保健领域，一家名为“水平疗法”的公司，我们专注于为持有执照的心理治疗师提供视频服务。我们是心理健康诊所，我们只是通过你的手机提供服务。RAYBET雷官网但我们也开发了自己的软件，如果你不一定有兴趣与专业心理治疗师交谈，就可以自己管理焦虑和抑郁。这是我对美国医疗保健系统的第一次身临大境的体验和理解科技可以成为一个很好的解决方案来提供护理或增加护理的采用，最终改善治疗效果。快进到现在，我们在Atheros工作了一年之后，我并没有那么兴奋。我们做了一些非常棒的工作，我们每年增长300%，我们建立了自己的平台，我们真的帮助很多人找到了工作。但我心里痒痒的，想干点别的。所以我花了一些时间——留出一些时间，认真思考我有独特资格去处理的机会，那绝对无疑地仍然是在医疗保健领域。 Digging a little bit deeper, what, you know, opportunities did I uncover or did I notice were kind of picking up in terms of velocity in the marketplace. Wellness is obviously one, and that’s not that uncommon. However, there is still an opportunity to create culturally relevant wellness products. And so there still is this disconnect between the producer of content and the consumer of content. And so these things aren’t necessarily linear in that, like, they’re not ubiquitous in that — let’s say if you have a, you know, the common cold you go to a physician, and most physicians are going to prescribe the same sort of medicine. We’re talking about wellness specifically around mindfulness and meditation. The consumer’s relationship with the content is extremely important in bridging the gap and helping them stay engaged and increase adoption so that you can increase outcomes and the benefits from the actual programs. And so the thought is that if we create something that is a bit more culturally local to how people are experiencing the world, what they actually are experiencing in their environments, then at the very least we can bridge the gap around adoption, which again, at the very least can start to suggest that we can increase treatment outcomes and engagement, which is extremely important when talking about nutritional programs and mindfulness and wellness. So after having that sort of realization, I still thought that that was compelling, but not compelling enough for me to want to leave my full time job and start something again, knowing that starting companies is very costly. So yeah, I just took a step back and thought, okay, if I’m operating from a place of abundance, what’s the largest that this potential approach could be? Like how much impact could we create through this approach? And I arrived at primary care, which has similar issues, and really spent a lot of time reading about the foundations of health care disparities and socially competent health care. And it turns out a lot of folks have been doing research on this for a few decades now. There still isn’t anyone nationwide trying to take this approach towards health care, and so that was a signal for me that there is an opportunity there and that there’s still some more research to be done. And so we continue to do some more research with consumerism or primary research. We had our first acquisition at Twitter where we — last week — where we actually developed for Black History Month, a Black wellness fair. And we brought in competent practitioners of Black acupuncturists, psychotherapists, massage therapists, folks teaching, or we had a Kung Fu Master teaching Qigong and Taichi, I led a guided meditation. And folks were really engaged and we had about 120 individuals come and participate. And that was a really strong signal that we’re heading in the right direction. So now moving forward, trying to figure out how we productize that and make sure that we are incentivizing the right actions and engagement behaviors.

凯蒂:It’s such important and critical work, I think, especially as we hear more demand and understanding in the medical community, but also in the broader public around social determinants of health and the need to really reach people where they are in terms of how we communicate to patients or consumers of healthcare. You know, this speaks so closely to my heart, especially at a lot of my early research when I was sort of finishing up my PhD and was around Appalachian Health, actually, and in that particular region of the world and how you bridge the gap between doctors and providers and communities there and try to make relationships and make educational materials that actually really do speak to people in their own language and their own sort of homeplace. And so, you know, all of that is so critically important. And I feel that what you’re doing, it could pave the way for other cultures and identities and really challenge health care as a whole to think about creating diversified approaches that might speak to — really, I think it’s about breaking down assumptions, right?

担：对，就是这样。确切地。是的，你绝对是正确的。而这些事情，因为他们在美国社会的面料中，他们出现在工作场所，但特别是在医疗保健环境中。这导致缺乏信任。而且因为缺乏信任，往往缺乏适当的沟通。Sometimes there’s more acute barriers between being able to communicate patient-to-consumer, and just lack of trust and lack of communication leads to just conversations around one’s care not taking place, which is its own issue, but then also potentially a lack of trust leading to a lack of adherence, which is also costly. Many things end up trickling out to being public health issues at a macro level and at a micro level, just not — they are impacting negatively the patient’s health, unfortunately, as well.

凯蒂:是的，绝对是他们的生活质量，他们的家庭和自己的健康状况以及个人和社区的健康。你是绝对正确的。The other thing that’s really interesting to me about what you’re creating is it inspires, I think, more visibility for minority providers or, you know, for people to see that there — that others who maybe aren’t the stereotypical, you know, racial or gender identity to actually be serving in different provider roles, right. You mentioned acupuncture and physical, you know, medicine, obviously, primary care. We have a massive shortage of primary care providers in the United States. And so not only having patient experiences that are relevant to Black America, but also being able to shed more visibility on providers who are Black and being able to see more of them out there and encourage and inspire more young people to say, yes, that could be me, I could take that career path because someone who looks like me has done so, too.

担：是的，是的，绝对。这绝对是一种对我们建立并确保我们代表我们服务的社区的练习的成功非常重要。But also, you know, be very transparent and clear about this in that, like, I understand that from a sheer numbers perspective, we’re never going to be able to — I won’t say never — but not in the short term be able to provide the same race access to physicians, particularly in the context of Black Americans. Currently today there are less than 1 percent of physicians in residency, in relation, or in contrast I should say, to 13 percent of the American population, being Black. So what does that look like for our practice and at scale? What it does mean is that yes, where we’re going to build a practice that we believe is going to be attractive for primary care physicians and other types of clinicians to join our practice to provide care. It’s not gonna work for everyone, I’m keenly aware of that fact, as well. And so what do we do with those challenges and with those variances potentially? So, we focus on education and we focus on still making sure that we are creating the tools to help physicians and the clinicians that are in our practice be successful in communicating and understanding the environments that individuals are coming from and are bringing with them into their relationships with their providers. And when we do that — there’s some work and some research on this — but, if we can effectively do that, we’ll be leaps and bounds ahead of where we currently are today acting like these things don’t exist, whereas they show up consistently in research report after research report — that’s just on the research side — but they also show up with a lack of mistrust and just feeling unsatisfied, unheard, and having negative experiences on the patient level when they leave their provider’s office. So understanding that we can’t have a one-to-one supply and demand type of relationship just yet, we do believe that eventually in the future maybe it’d be amazing if we could get there, but also understanding that it’s still going to be our job to make sure that we’re educating other physicians and other clinicians that are in our practice to understand the experiences in the environments, socially, that communities are existing in, and the things that they could be bringing with them in their bodies to work.

凯蒂:当然，我完全同意。你真的会——这个概念真的会改变所有人和所有提供者对待他们的护理的方式，所以我认为它是非常强大的。当你推出这个项目的时候，我知道它还很年轻，但是当谈到这家公司的故事时，你现在在想什么呢?

担：谈到这家公司的故事，我在很大程度上思考差异化。所以我正在考虑“我们如何以非常清晰，非常可理解的保健网络，供应商和最终用户的方式推广自己？”所以我一直在想很多语言运作良好。我一直在谈论很多不同的各方。这是我的设计过程和我最终启动的任何公司的品牌流程。在我有一种了解假设可能是这样的理解之后，我立即出去，然后在我知道之前开始与个人交谈，你知道，任何清晰的电梯沥青或真正有什么样的understanding of how to package specifically what I’m working on. And, you know, for the first few conversations, I just sound like I’m rambling because I am, but, you know, to me, I know that I know the information and I know I’m competitive in being able to acquire information, retain information and, you know, speak to the right types of information to different people when I need to. But part of it is for me to go out and have conversations and gauge how individuals are responding to what I’m saying, understand the types of questions that they ask, understand visually reading body language and understanding if they’re in positions of agreeing with what I’m saying or if they’re feeling kind of contentious against what I’m saying, as well. And this process helps inform what I say and when I say it for subsequent conversations around the opportunity. And to why that’s important is because for technology companies in particular, but also healthcare companies, individual health companies, there are a lot of new entrants in the market every single day. Branding is going to be increasingly competitive. If individuals are not able to create a strong brand that effectively communicates what it needs to communicate to the market, they’re not going to be around in 5, 10, 15 years. And I’m trying to build a company that is going to go public in 10 years. So I’m very focused on making sure that we are doing the groundwork to start from a strong position, from a branding perspective, and so part of my processes to get out there and talk about these things, but also make sure that we have a strong process to synthesize the learnings from these conversations and the value propositions that we’re creating into an online presence. So whether that’s a landing page, whether that’s an app, or offline experiences that we’re creating, as well, they all need to feel the same way and speak to the same things.

凯蒂:不要等到你的电梯沥青是完美的，这是一个很好的建议，试用它的人 -

担：Yeah, it’s — even if you think it’s perfect, you’re going to go out there and, you know, try to rehearse something or try to recite something that is rehearsed and memorized, it’s — I’ve been, I’ve had that approach very early on in my entrepreneurial career as well. And it just doesn’t feel genuine and authentic. And you could tell when — well, at least I can tell when — an individual just knows the material and they’re just really connected with the problem that they’re solving or it’s something that they’re just kind of, you know, regurgitating, something that’s rehearsed because they know they need to have something to describe what they’re working on. And, you know, authenticity is going to win that battle any day.

凯蒂:是的,当然。我认为这几乎是一种开放的参与，当你做得不那么完美时，你在为你的听众提供给你反馈的机会，同时你也在贬低自己。

担：我同意，谢谢。

凯蒂:我对“快速行动，打破现状”的概念以及它在健康创业领域的应用方式非常感兴趣。你能分享一下你的一些想法吗?

担：是的，这是一个很大的话题。这是，你知道，这是一个大的课题。因此，采取从高位后退一步，我们，我说我们是在技术领域技术人员和企业家，不是在一个非常有利的地位，因为它涉及到公众的意见。这是什么，我已经给了很多心思。我意识到这一点 - 这些趋势那种在2016年没有发生回来 - 你知道，他们不是那么糟糕，因为他们现在是正确的，每说，然而，是正在发生还是显著漏洞。As I really understood how products were being designed, what the dark side of UX could look like, and what it’s looking like, and how these approaches towards making products, quote unquote, sticky and addictive were being implemented in consumer products, I really understood that, you know, this wasn’t a very good scenario for, you know, inspiring trust from the community and from the public. But I also knew on the other end for digital health products to be successful, we really do need the data and to really understand whether or not approaches are working well, access to data is essential and the amounts of data points that are collected and are shared are nowhere near the proportions that they are in consumer products like Uber or Google or Pinterest or Twitter, etc. And so whereas you may be having access to hundreds of millions and billions of data points, as something like Facebook, within a digital health company, you may be lucky if you get access to, like, 100,000 Macs, like, you’re going to get — and that scale is very hard across different patient populations to understand which approaches are working well in it and providing statistical significance, so we can be smarter about, you know, the products we’re building. And so why start there is because it’s important to understand the context and the environment that we are in currently. So when we talk about notions like “move fast and break things,” parts of them have their place within health care companies, largely they do not at all. And it’s good, the only places that they really do hold a, you know, hold a place within a digital health company is when we’re talking about internal decisions around design and product decisions that don’t necessarily impact, or don’t involve, a user to move forward, or user’s data to move forward. Depending on the type of product that you’re working on, you know, this may be a large part of your — a large percentage of the decisions that you have to make day-to-day, or very few percentage of the decisions that you make day-to-day. But that seems to be the barrier for me, is that if we’re involving any data points that pertain to any patient or user’s data and leveraging that to make decisions, we can’t disrespect that and throw caution to the wind and move fast and break things. This is not, this is not a you know — we’re not in an environment where we can just, you know, a product can break. And so potentially this could be, like, life-threatening scenarios if one of our products breaks or goes down for a second or a particular, you know, a few minutes, or half a day, etc. And so it’s analogous to, you know, not one-to-one, but it is analogous to the financial services industry and a lot of the companies that are in that space, and they’re facing similar challenges from this lens around trust with the general public and not being able to really move fast and break things, you know. That type of rhetoric is reserved for consumer products that, you know, don’t necessarily have that much potential negative impact on individuals and society at large, but even still at that level, I don’t necessarily prescribe to that. I think we should be moving as quickly as we possibly can, for sure. If we’re gonna be resorting to breaking things, let’s break them internally in process and not in production where people are —they’re not being exposed to, I almost said our negligence, but you can make the case that it is negligence, actually, in some cases, but I don’t want to just externalize, you know, a particular system or industry’s intent to move fast and try to grow as quickly as possible to building bad experiences for the public.

凯蒂:对。是的，究竟。It —well I think too, in a sort of post Theranos world, there’s more demand than ever for responsible action and any kind of whistleblowing, but also for health care companies and really other startups even outside of just medicine to have valid findings to support their creations and to be publishing to some degree and getting their work peer-reviewed to have published scientists on their board of advisors. And I think the pressure is higher than ever to do that. And we’re starting to see a rise in demand for those kinds of actions that take place, especially around health tech. But it’s a massive challenge to sort of work within the startup culture, but also be ready to have that level of responsibility and trust from the get-go that’s just demanded. And in industries like health care, or you mentioned financial tech, or you know, aviation is another one that comes to mind, I think, where it just has to be highly reliable, start to finish. No mistakes, really, no critical mistakes, anyway.

担：是的。

凯蒂:你能告诉我们 - 我想在我们离开的一点时间内切换，因为我们甚至没有能够谈论后台资本以及令人难以置信的组织，以及如何反对它是如何形成的赔率阿兰你知道，几年前。现在，你是一个导师，是那个令人难以置信的风险投资公司的一部分。你能告诉我们一些关于你作为导师的角色吗？

担：是的。你知道，这太疯狂了。我的故事与后台的一些不同的个人重叠，所以现在是一些加速器公司的导师，它只是带来完整的圈子，它真的很酷而有趣。当我正在努力进行水平治疗时，我的早期投资者之一，他知道阿兰和阿兰通过NLP与他联系，所以这个特殊的人将自己介绍给阿尔兰。她全面筹集了筹款模式，是什么是Backstage Capital，最初的基金。而目前，她没有投资，所以就像，好的，很酷，没问题。所以我继续留在我的旅程中，当时我正在筹款，实际上对播客进行了播客进行了播客使命和价值观一个叫布莱恩·兰德斯．如此快进到今天，布莱恩着陆器刚刚宣布为他们的一般合作伙伴，也许一个月或两次，在布莱恩接受了一些剧集之后，他采访了阿尔兰，然后他开始工作 - 好吧，我实际上认为阿兰获得了任务和价值观，部分是，你知道，收购团队。我相信，布莱恩开始致力于设计工作，成为他们的首席设计官员，然后他是一家公司正在使用很多其他组合公司的企业家居民，然后成长为COO，然后是普通合作伙伴。只是说 -

凯蒂:这只是令人难以置信的。

担：是的，这太酷了——这些故事有时会活下来——所以对我来说，去年在后台宣布了他们在三个不同城市的加速计划后，有一个导师的呼吁，我想是洛杉矶，费城和伦敦。当时，我在纽约工作，时差并不难，所以我对指导一些正在建立市场的公司和/或医疗保健或音乐相关的初创公司非常感兴趣，它最终很适合，所以当这些公司处于加速阶段时，我就开始指导他们，这些公司都在伦敦，我很高兴能继续为一些公司做这些事情。这是我非常关心的事情，并确保下一波的创新者和企业家在创建自己的企业时，对需要考虑的事项有正确的理解。是的，当我刚开始创业的时候，这对我来说是非常成功的帮助我识别我不知道的东西以及如何找到信息和资源来学习这些技能或者只是学习信息，获取信息。所以我想确保我尽可能支持下一代,这样我们就可以,你知道的,在一个较高的水平,在一种社会层面,确保我们缩短匝道创新产品,在当地一种放大级别,确保我们正在减少消极的互动，企业家们在他们试图在这个世界上产生巨大影响的过程中可能经历的负面互动。

凯蒂:是的。是的，一点没错。它真的很改变等式的所有方面。It’s empowering the founder, it’s changing what funders — who decides to go into funding, it’s putting pressure on other venture firms to show that they are being more inclusive in their hiring practices and in their, you know, leadership practices around who becomes partner at those firms. I just —it’s such important work. And I think, you know, even here in the Midwest, where my startup is headquartered, there’s constant conversation. And at least if we’re not making progress, at least, damn it, we are having a conversation about it, even though sometimes it feels like beating our heads against the wall to try to change the number of minority founders and women founders who are getting venture money. But I just so respect the fact that you spend some of your time mentoring at Backstage, and I am a huge fan of everything that Arlan has evangelized for there.

担：是的，我被震撼了。阿伦所做的工作，以及在后台的投资组合公司所做的工作，让我深受鼓舞，总的来说，就是后台资本的精神，以及它在华盛顿和金融行业的重要性。你是完全正确的，我也同意，我相信这是非常重要的工作，有很多非常重要的元评论正在发生，所以我想要尽可能地支持。

凯蒂:丹，当谈到，你知道，有点给出关于我们的建议，每个人都真的 - 当我说我们的时候，任何人都投入或对创新感兴趣，谁想成为任何方面的创新社区的一部分 - 什么建议你有关于继续挑战假设和挑战的事情，曾经是常识的创业文化的挑战？是否有任何建议，因为我们努力更多样化的了解应该在启动世界中被接受和庆祝哪些故事？

担：好吧，我想我还是用我在人生旅途中学到的两种价值观吧。它们可能听起来相当模糊，但它们植根于经验和我们物质现实的各个方面。首先，一切皆有可能。我的意思是——我特别强调一切都是可能的而不是一切都是可能的——我的意思是宇宙中存在的所有机会都存在于此时此刻。意思是，如果我们相信热力学定律——它解释了宇宙的基本组成部分并不是由物质创造的，它只是改变了形式——那么创造未来的所有可能性就存在于这一刻。作为创新者，作为企业家，我们的工作就是把这些点连接起来，确保我们能够创造未来。有时这需要很长时间，很长时间，很长时间，大量的思考和大量的合作，有时不那么多，但这就是工作。所以，对于那些想要走上这条道路，成为创新者和企业家的人，我想与你们分享这一点，因为你们需要依靠那种程度的信念来理解你们正在做的事情是可以完成的。如果所有帮助成功者成功的机会都存在于这一刻。但这也是一种认识，不是每个人都能成为托马斯·爱迪生。 We can’t all be the person that actually is known for the creation of the large invention, sometimes we — it’s our role to do all the work we can to build, I say, the little filaments that’s in the light bulb. And that takes a lot of time, right, but we don’t know — the inputs are exactly the same. And you don’t know where you’re going to be on that path of innovation. And so do not be so attached to the outcomes. And just understand, this is the work that you want to do. Saying that, you know, again, the inputs are exactly the same, you don’t know where you’re going to be on this chain of innovation for a particular set of products, but to do your best to understand that, you know, the universe is on your side and all these opportunities to help you be successful are already present. And the last thing is to show up. And so, I’ve learned that over my career, 80 percent, if not 90 percent, of my success could be attributed just by doing the hard work that it takes and the easy work, honestly, that it takes just to show up and be in the room or to be in a position to be lucky. And so by that, I mean the hardest thing — I’m a long distance runner — the hardest every single time I go out to run, the hardest actual actions to take are, you know, putting on all my gear in my apartment early on the morning to get ready to go out and run. As soon as I get outside of my door and start running, like, it just — my body takes over and I understand what I need to do, and it’s just easy peasy after that. The hard part is showing up, the difficult part is staying in the game and being committed and doing the small — the actions that other individuals are not willing to do to get to the places that you as an innovator want to be in, right. And so making sure that we’re not just showing up, but also over time, you’re going to want to try to optimize those moments that you are showing up, right. So this is a really quick story about this is like if you’re going to be in class in university, you know, you go to class and, you know, there’s a range of places that you can sit in the actual, in the classroom. By and large, when I sit in the front row of a class I am more engaged, I feel like I learn more, I actually do believe I learn more, and I feel more connected with the material because physically I am much closer to where the source of the material versus when I sit towards the back of the room, I’m physically further away, there’s all these types of distractions to grab my attention, and it’s not the same experience. And so if we’re going to show up then show up and do our best and make sure that we’re 100 percent present. And those two notions have taken me a very long way and understanding that everything that we experience was created by someone no smarter than me, and that largely all I need to do is to find the information that I need to create and make the next decision I need to make and to do it to the best of my ability. And then we’ll see where the chips fall.

凯蒂:绝对的。我很喜欢这个建议，我也在认真思考，如何向前一步，挑选出能够展现出来的纪律。我爱。谢谢你！非常感谢你，丹。这是一次令人难以置信的对话。我等不及要看你的下一个大发明了。我真的很感激你们今天花时间来分享你们所有的见解。你能告诉我们网上哪里能找到你吗?

担：是的，一点没错。我的投资组合和网站是danmmiller.com.．在社交中，我是@mauricemillerrr，那是三个r最终，开推特和Instagram．我的电子邮件是hi@danmmiller.com为任何想要伸出任何东西的人。

凯蒂:惊人的。非常感谢。肯定关注丹的工作，我很感激你是初创公司的导师。再次，我迫不及待地想看看你将接下来的内容。非常感谢您在播客。

担：绝对的。非常感谢你，凯蒂。

凯蒂:感谢收听本周的节目。一定要在社交媒体上关注我们，并在对话中加入你的声音。你可以在@untoldcontent找到我们。

你可以多听几集创新播客的解开故事．

*访谈不是个人或企业的认可。