随着Spora Health的Dan Miller彻底改变了无障碍医疗保健医疗保健英雄PT。1

“消费者与内容的关系对于缩小差距至关重要，这有助于他们保持沉浸感，并提高用户认知度。——dan Miller, Backstage Capital的导师、Spora Health的创始人兼首席执行官

为什么故事对创新过程有关？分享故事的创新者可以灌输哪些值？创新领导者如何激发创作者告诉和分享他们的成功和失败故事？

我们与Dan Miller说话，是一个导师后台资本和创始人兼首席执行官Spora健康关于他在技术领域的经验以及他对同事的建议。丹正在挖掘我们的#HealthCareHeroes播客迷你系列，在那里我们将与正在改变医疗保健空间的人分享访谈。Dan为那些没有被充分代表的声音提供了机会，让他们在商业和医疗领域分享自己的故事。今天，他与我们分享了对美国医疗体系的见解，以及成功有时是如何显现出来的。

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凯蒂：欢迎来到创新的不陈述故事，在那里我们扩大了洞察力，影响和创新的解开故事。由无国界的内容提供支持雷竞技电竞竞猜，我是您的主人，Katie Trauth Taylor。我们今天的客人是丹麦勒。他是Backstage Capital的导师，他是Spora Health的创始人兼首席执行官。丹，我今天很感激你今天在播客。

丹:谢谢你,凯蒂。今天能来这里聊天我真的很兴奋。

凯蒂：你能告诉我们你的创新故事吗？

丹:是的，绝对。所以我认为我的创新故事 - 我相信AOL和AIM在90年代中期出现技术的推动力可能是我相信。

凯蒂：是的。

丹:我长大了 - 我猜这把我们带到了一点。但它很有趣，我现在在我的生活中进入一个舞台，我可以开始说这些东西，这只是有趣的。

凯蒂：这是奇怪的，对。是的，我可能在那里有类似的船。

丹:我在新泽西州的东海岸长大，在离费城以北约一小时车程，离纽约市西南一小时20分钟车程的一个叫弗莱明顿的小镇。我们在与宾夕法尼亚州接壤的新泽西州农村地区。我一直是我姨妈所说的好管闲事的人。我非常积极，非常有兴趣尽可能多地学习。我是时候听到了互联网的风声，我们在小学有了计算机实验室，谢天谢地，那时我才五、六年级，我说服我的父母，你知道，在家里上网。我猜我卖得很好。不久之后我们就有了AOL。在那之后，我被一种理念所吸引，那就是通过我的指尖和键盘跟随我的好奇心，学习和接触任何我感兴趣的东西。就好像从那一刻起，一切都结束了，我被出卖了。此后不久，我学到了更多的工程方面的东西——退一步说——我非常喜欢电脑游戏和视频游戏，总的来说，游戏，就是这样。 So I loved to play sports, and when I wasn’t outside being active, playing sports, I was inside playing video games on the computer or on, you know, a gaming system. And so I had a group of friends that we used to play computer games a lot together, and we ended up building our own Alienware computer just to make sure that we could have the fastest computer possible with the best video graphic card that was out at the moment and that we could modulate what the performance was of the computer. And I also at around that time started to get into kind of software development, quote unquote, just by programming my first role-playing game, this was around sixth grade. And this was the — this process over these few years was the impetus of me really understanding my love as a consumer for innovation and technology, but also the very first glimpses of what would end up being a career and actually creating these technologies. But it all just started around curiosity, for myself.

凯蒂：这是令人难以置信的。现在，您已经成为几个不同的加速器计划的一部分。是你 - 你有一些目前的消息吗？ondeck.吗?这是新的吗?

丹:是的，是的。所以，ondeck是一个托特加速器。因此，上个月，我决定距离atheros并开始为我正在努力的下一家公司创造种子，称为Spora Health。而且，Spora Health将成为初级保健网络，也是一个虚拟服务，也提供了我们在以文化为中心的护理定义的内容。因此，我们正在设计医疗保健，特别是初级保健，专为美国的颜色人士而设计。And so our goal is to address racial and ethnic healthcare disparities across the Latinx, Black American, South Asian and East Asian American communities in particular, but we’re not exclusionary to any other groups, but we are very inclusive of these groups and are uniquely designing experiences for them with the hypothesis of if we do so, we’ll be able to address significant health care disparities.

凯蒂：丹，这是令人难以置信的。

丹:谢谢你！是的，这是一个非常宏大的目标，所以这是我现在的工作，作为OnDeck的一部分，我加入OnDeck就是为了尽可能地降低机会的风险。所以第一次迭代将是一些虚拟的东西，专注于提供正念项目和营养项目专门为美国黑人社区。然后我们将从中学习，并确定我们应该水平发展还是垂直发展。但OnDeck和其他一些我们正在合作的程序应该能让我们更容易做出这些决定。

凯蒂：你能告诉我们是什么激发了你创办Spora Health吗?

丹:是的。因此，推动Spora Health的动力更多的是一个过程，而不是由某个特定事件激发的。我在15年和16年创办的上一家公司也是在医疗保健领域，叫做水平疗法(Level Therapy)，我们专注于为有执照的心理治疗师提供视频服务。所以，我们是一家心理健康诊所，我们只是通过你的手机提供服务。RAYBET雷官网但我们也开发了自己的软件来管理你自己的焦虑和抑郁，如果你不一定有兴趣与专业心理治疗师交谈的话。这是我第一次沉浸式的体验和对美国医疗保健系统的理解技术可以成为一个很好的解决方案来提供护理或增加护理的采用，最终改善治疗结果。快进到现在，在Atheros工作了一年之后，我并不是很兴奋。我们做了一些非常棒的工作，我们每年增长了300%，我们建立了自己的平台，我们真的帮助了很多人获得工作。但我很想做点别的事。所以我花了一些时间，留出一些时间来认真思考那些我特别有资格处理的机会毫无疑问，这些机会仍然在医疗保健领域。 Digging a little bit deeper, what, you know, opportunities did I uncover or did I notice were kind of picking up in terms of velocity in the marketplace. Wellness is obviously one, and that’s not that uncommon. However, there is still an opportunity to create culturally relevant wellness products. And so there still is this disconnect between the producer of content and the consumer of content. And so these things aren’t necessarily linear in that, like, they’re not ubiquitous in that — let’s say if you have a, you know, the common cold you go to a physician, and most physicians are going to prescribe the same sort of medicine. We’re talking about wellness specifically around mindfulness and meditation. The consumer’s relationship with the content is extremely important in bridging the gap and helping them stay engaged and increase adoption so that you can increase outcomes and the benefits from the actual programs. And so the thought is that if we create something that is a bit more culturally local to how people are experiencing the world, what they actually are experiencing in their environments, then at the very least we can bridge the gap around adoption, which again, at the very least can start to suggest that we can increase treatment outcomes and engagement, which is extremely important when talking about nutritional programs and mindfulness and wellness. So after having that sort of realization, I still thought that that was compelling, but not compelling enough for me to want to leave my full time job and start something again, knowing that starting companies is very costly. So yeah, I just took a step back and thought, okay, if I’m operating from a place of abundance, what’s the largest that this potential approach could be? Like how much impact could we create through this approach? And I arrived at primary care, which has similar issues, and really spent a lot of time reading about the foundations of health care disparities and socially competent health care. And it turns out a lot of folks have been doing research on this for a few decades now. There still isn’t anyone nationwide trying to take this approach towards health care, and so that was a signal for me that there is an opportunity there and that there’s still some more research to be done. And so we continue to do some more research with consumerism or primary research. We had our first acquisition at Twitter where we — last week — where we actually developed for Black History Month, a Black wellness fair. And we brought in competent practitioners of Black acupuncturists, psychotherapists, massage therapists, folks teaching, or we had a Kung Fu Master teaching Qigong and Taichi, I led a guided meditation. And folks were really engaged and we had about 120 individuals come and participate. And that was a really strong signal that we’re heading in the right direction. So now moving forward, trying to figure out how we productize that and make sure that we are incentivizing the right actions and engagement behaviors.

凯蒂：这样重要和关键工作,我想,尤其是当我们听到更多的需求和理解在医学界,而且在更广泛的公共健康问题社会决定因素和需要真正达到人的我们如何和病人交流或消费者的医疗保健。你知道，这很贴近我的内心，特别是在我早期的很多研究中当我完成我的博士学位时，实际上是在阿巴拉契亚健康中心，在世界上那个特定的地区，你如何在医生，提供者和社区之间架起桥梁，试图建立关系，制作教育材料，真正用他们自己的语言和他们自己的家乡与人们交流。所以，你知道，所有这些都是非常重要的。我觉得你所做的，可能会为其他文化和身份铺平道路并且真正挑战整个医疗保健体系去思考创造多样化的方法可能会说-真的，我认为这是关于打破假设的，对吧?

丹:对，就是这样。确切地。是的，你绝对是正确的。而这些事情，因为他们在美国社会的面料中，他们出现在工作场所，但特别是在医疗保健环境中。这导致缺乏信任。而且因为缺乏信任，往往缺乏适当的沟通。Sometimes there’s more acute barriers between being able to communicate patient-to-consumer, and just lack of trust and lack of communication leads to just conversations around one’s care not taking place, which is its own issue, but then also potentially a lack of trust leading to a lack of adherence, which is also costly. Many things end up trickling out to being public health issues at a macro level and at a micro level, just not — they are impacting negatively the patient’s health, unfortunately, as well.

凯蒂：是的，绝对是他们的生活质量，他们的家庭和自己的健康状况以及个人和社区的健康。你是绝对正确的。The other thing that’s really interesting to me about what you’re creating is it inspires, I think, more visibility for minority providers or, you know, for people to see that there — that others who maybe aren’t the stereotypical, you know, racial or gender identity to actually be serving in different provider roles, right. You mentioned acupuncture and physical, you know, medicine, obviously, primary care. We have a massive shortage of primary care providers in the United States. And so not only having patient experiences that are relevant to Black America, but also being able to shed more visibility on providers who are Black and being able to see more of them out there and encourage and inspire more young people to say, yes, that could be me, I could take that career path because someone who looks like me has done so, too.

丹:是的，是的，绝对。这绝对是一种对我们建立并确保我们代表我们服务的社区的练习的成功非常重要。But also, you know, be very transparent and clear about this in that, like, I understand that from a sheer numbers perspective, we’re never going to be able to — I won’t say never — but not in the short term be able to provide the same race access to physicians, particularly in the context of Black Americans. Currently today there are less than 1 percent of physicians in residency, in relation, or in contrast I should say, to 13 percent of the American population, being Black. So what does that look like for our practice and at scale? What it does mean is that yes, where we’re going to build a practice that we believe is going to be attractive for primary care physicians and other types of clinicians to join our practice to provide care. It’s not gonna work for everyone, I’m keenly aware of that fact, as well. And so what do we do with those challenges and with those variances potentially? So, we focus on education and we focus on still making sure that we are creating the tools to help physicians and the clinicians that are in our practice be successful in communicating and understanding the environments that individuals are coming from and are bringing with them into their relationships with their providers. And when we do that — there’s some work and some research on this — but, if we can effectively do that, we’ll be leaps and bounds ahead of where we currently are today acting like these things don’t exist, whereas they show up consistently in research report after research report — that’s just on the research side — but they also show up with a lack of mistrust and just feeling unsatisfied, unheard, and having negative experiences on the patient level when they leave their provider’s office. So understanding that we can’t have a one-to-one supply and demand type of relationship just yet, we do believe that eventually in the future maybe it’d be amazing if we could get there, but also understanding that it’s still going to be our job to make sure that we’re educating other physicians and other clinicians that are in our practice to understand the experiences in the environments, socially, that communities are existing in, and the things that they could be bringing with them in their bodies to work.

凯蒂：绝对，我完全同意。你真的要去 - 这个概念可以真正改变所有人和所有提供商接近他们的照顾的方式，所以我认为这是非常强大的。当你推出这个时，我知道这很年轻，但是在涉及到这家公司的故事时，你现在正在思考是什么？

丹:谈到这家公司的故事，我在很大程度上思考差异化。所以我正在考虑“我们如何以非常清晰，非常可理解的保健网络，供应商和最终用户的方式推广自己？”所以我一直在想很多语言运作良好。我一直在谈论很多不同的各方。这是我的设计过程和我最终启动的任何公司的品牌流程。在我有一种了解假设可能是这样的理解之后，我立即出去，然后在我知道之前开始与个人交谈，你知道，任何清晰的电梯沥青或真正有什么样的understanding of how to package specifically what I’m working on. And, you know, for the first few conversations, I just sound like I’m rambling because I am, but, you know, to me, I know that I know the information and I know I’m competitive in being able to acquire information, retain information and, you know, speak to the right types of information to different people when I need to. But part of it is for me to go out and have conversations and gauge how individuals are responding to what I’m saying, understand the types of questions that they ask, understand visually reading body language and understanding if they’re in positions of agreeing with what I’m saying or if they’re feeling kind of contentious against what I’m saying, as well. And this process helps inform what I say and when I say it for subsequent conversations around the opportunity. And to why that’s important is because for technology companies in particular, but also healthcare companies, individual health companies, there are a lot of new entrants in the market every single day. Branding is going to be increasingly competitive. If individuals are not able to create a strong brand that effectively communicates what it needs to communicate to the market, they’re not going to be around in 5, 10, 15 years. And I’m trying to build a company that is going to go public in 10 years. So I’m very focused on making sure that we are doing the groundwork to start from a strong position, from a branding perspective, and so part of my processes to get out there and talk about these things, but also make sure that we have a strong process to synthesize the learnings from these conversations and the value propositions that we’re creating into an online presence. So whether that’s a landing page, whether that’s an app, or offline experiences that we’re creating, as well, they all need to feel the same way and speak to the same things.

凯蒂：不要等到电梯游说完美了再去尝试，这是个很好的建议

丹:Yeah, it’s — even if you think it’s perfect, you’re going to go out there and, you know, try to rehearse something or try to recite something that is rehearsed and memorized, it’s — I’ve been, I’ve had that approach very early on in my entrepreneurial career as well. And it just doesn’t feel genuine and authentic. And you could tell when — well, at least I can tell when — an individual just knows the material and they’re just really connected with the problem that they’re solving or it’s something that they’re just kind of, you know, regurgitating, something that’s rehearsed because they know they need to have something to describe what they’re working on. And, you know, authenticity is going to win that battle any day.

凯蒂：是的，绝对。I think it’s almost too there’s a level of an openness to participation that you’re enabling when you come at it a little less polished, right, you’re sort of inserting opportunities for your listener to give you feedback, and you’re humbling yourself too.

丹:我同意，谢谢。

凯蒂：我对“快速打破东西的概念”以及可以在健康启动空间中兼容的方式感兴趣。你能分享一些关于你的一些想法吗？

丹:是的，这是一个很好的话题。这是一个很大的话题。所以从高层次上退一步，我们，我说我们作为技术领域的技术专家和企业家，并没有处于一个很好的位置，因为它与公众舆论有关。这是我想了很多的事情。我早在2016年就意识到了这些趋势。没有，你知道，他们没有现在这么糟糕，但是，仍然有重大的违规发生。当我真正理解产品是如何被设计,用户体验的阴暗面会是什么样子,它看起来像什么,以及这些方法对制造产品,所谓的,粘性和上瘾的消费产品中得到实现,我真的知道,你知道,这并不是一个很好的场景,你知道,激发社区和公众的信任。但另一方面，我也知道数字健康产品要想成功，我们真的需要数据，真正了解这些方法是否有效，获取数据是至关重要的，而被收集和分享的数据点的数量远不及Uber、谷歌、Pinterest或Twitter等消费产品中的比例。 And so whereas you may be having access to hundreds of millions and billions of data points, as something like Facebook, within a digital health company, you may be lucky if you get access to, like, 100,000 Macs, like, you’re going to get — and that scale is very hard across different patient populations to understand which approaches are working well in it and providing statistical significance, so we can be smarter about, you know, the products we’re building. And so why start there is because it’s important to understand the context and the environment that we are in currently. So when we talk about notions like “move fast and break things,” parts of them have their place within health care companies, largely they do not at all. And it’s good, the only places that they really do hold a, you know, hold a place within a digital health company is when we’re talking about internal decisions around design and product decisions that don’t necessarily impact, or don’t involve, a user to move forward, or user’s data to move forward. Depending on the type of product that you’re working on, you know, this may be a large part of your — a large percentage of the decisions that you have to make day-to-day, or very few percentage of the decisions that you make day-to-day. But that seems to be the barrier for me, is that if we’re involving any data points that pertain to any patient or user’s data and leveraging that to make decisions, we can’t disrespect that and throw caution to the wind and move fast and break things. This is not, this is not a you know — we’re not in an environment where we can just, you know, a product can break. And so potentially this could be, like, life-threatening scenarios if one of our products breaks or goes down for a second or a particular, you know, a few minutes, or half a day, etc. And so it’s analogous to, you know, not one-to-one, but it is analogous to the financial services industry and a lot of the companies that are in that space, and they’re facing similar challenges from this lens around trust with the general public and not being able to really move fast and break things, you know. That type of rhetoric is reserved for consumer products that, you know, don’t necessarily have that much potential negative impact on individuals and society at large, but even still at that level, I don’t necessarily prescribe to that. I think we should be moving as quickly as we possibly can, for sure. If we’re gonna be resorting to breaking things, let’s break them internally in process and not in production where people are —they’re not being exposed to, I almost said our negligence, but you can make the case that it is negligence, actually, in some cases, but I don’t want to just externalize, you know, a particular system or industry’s intent to move fast and try to grow as quickly as possible to building bad experiences for the public.

凯蒂：正确的。是的,没错。我也认为，在后Theranos时代，对负责任的行为和任何形式的举报的需求比以往任何时候都要大，但对医疗保健公司和其他创业公司来说，甚至是医药之外的公司也要有有效的发现来支持他们的发明，在某种程度上要发表论文让他们的工作得到同行的评审让他们的顾问委员会中有发表论文的科学家。我认为这样做的压力比以往任何时候都要大。和我们开始看到这些行动的需求上升,尤其是在卫生技术。但这是一个巨大的挑战的工作内的创业文化,但也准备好,水平的责任和信任从一开始这就是要求。在像医疗保健，或者你提到的金融科技，或者你知道，航空是另一个我想到的行业，我认为，它必须高度可靠，从头到尾。没有错误，真的，没有重要的错误。

丹:是的。

凯蒂：你能告诉我们-我想在我们剩下的一点时间里转换一下因为我们还没来得及谈论后台资本以及它是一个多么不可思议的组织它是如何克服困难成立的Arlan你知道，几年前。现在你成为了这家风投公司的导师。你能跟我们说说你作为导师的角色吗?

丹:是的。你知道，这太疯狂了。我的故事与后台的一些不同的个人重叠，所以现在是一些加速器公司的导师，它只是带来完整的圈子，它真的很酷而有趣。当我正在努力进行水平治疗时，我的早期投资者之一，他知道阿兰和阿兰通过NLP与他联系，所以这个特殊的人将自己介绍给阿尔兰。她全面筹集了筹款模式，是什么是Backstage Capital，最初的基金。而目前，她没有投资，所以就像，好的，很酷，没问题。所以我继续留在我的旅程中，当时我正在筹款，实际上对播客进行了播客进行了播客使命和价值观由绅士的名义布莱恩着陆器．到今天，大概一两个月前，布莱恩·兰德斯刚刚被宣布为他们的普通合伙人之一，几集之后，布莱恩为《使命与价值观》采访了我，他采访了阿兰然后他开始工作事实上，我相信阿伦获得了使命和价值观，其中一部分就是，你知道的，获得了整个团队。布莱恩开始从事设计工作并担任他们的首席设计官，我想，然后他是一名企业家居民他与很多其他投资组合公司合作然后成长为首席运营官，现在是一名普通合伙人。我只想说

凯蒂：就是不可思议的。

丹:是的，这太酷了 - 这些故事有时候会活着 - 所以对我来说，去年后舞台上的导师呼吁在三个不同的城市宣布他们的加速计划，我相信这是L.A.，费城和伦敦。And at the time, I was based in New York and the time difference wasn’t that difficult, and so I was very interested in mentoring some of the companies that were building out marketplaces and/or health care or music related startups and it ended up being a good fit, and so I’ve started mentoring some of those companies while they were in the accelerator, the companies are based in London, and yeah, excited to continue to do so for some of the cohorts of companies. It’s something that’s really close to my heart and making sure that the next wave of innovators and entrepreneurs have the right understanding of considerations to take into account when they are building their businesses. And yeah, that was something that was very successful for me when I was just starting as an entrepreneur and helping identify what I didn’t know and how to go find the information and the resources to learn those skills or just learn the information, get access to the information. And so I want to make sure that I’m being as supportive of the next generation as possible so that we can, you know, at a high level and at a kind of society level, make sure that we are shortening the on-ramp to innovative products and at a kind of local, zoomed-in level, making sure that we’re decreasing the amount of negative interactions that entrepreneurs can experience in their path of trying to create a lot of impact in this world.

凯蒂：是的。是的，一点没错。它真的很改变等式的所有方面。It’s empowering the founder, it’s changing what funders — who decides to go into funding, it’s putting pressure on other venture firms to show that they are being more inclusive in their hiring practices and in their, you know, leadership practices around who becomes partner at those firms. I just —it’s such important work. And I think, you know, even here in the Midwest, where my startup is headquartered, there’s constant conversation. And at least if we’re not making progress, at least, damn it, we are having a conversation about it, even though sometimes it feels like beating our heads against the wall to try to change the number of minority founders and women founders who are getting venture money. But I just so respect the fact that you spend some of your time mentoring at Backstage, and I am a huge fan of everything that Arlan has evangelized for there.

丹:是的，我很惊讶。我被Arlan所做的所有工作所鼓舞，这些工作都是由Backstage的投资组合公司所做的，以及Backstage Capital的精神，以及它在华盛顿特区的重要性，以及一般金融行业的重要性。所以，你绝对是正确的，我也同意，我相信这是非常重要的工作，有很多非常重要的元评论正在发生，所以我想尽可能多地支持。

凯蒂：丹，当谈到，你知道，就像给我们，每个人提供建议，当我说我们，任何人投资或对创新感兴趣，谁想成为任何方面创新社区的一员对于他们继续挑战传统观念，挑战传统的创业文化，你有什么建议吗?对于创业界应该接受和庆祝什么样的故事，你有什么建议吗?

丹:好吧，我想我要用我在这段经历中学到的两种价值观。它们听起来可能相当模糊，但它们植根于经验和我们物理现实的所有方面。所以，第一，一切皆有可能。我的意思是——我很特别地说所有的事情都是可能的，而不是所有的事情都是可能的——我的意思是宇宙中存在的所有机会都存在于此时此刻。也就是说，如果我们相信热力学定律——它解释了宇宙的基本成分不是被创造出来的，它只是改变了形式——那么创造未来的所有可能性都存在于这一刻。作为创新者，作为企业家，我们的工作就是将点滴联系起来，确保我们能够创造未来。有时这需要很长时间，很长时间需要大量的思考和合作，有时不需要那么多，但这就是工作。因此，对于那些想要沿着这条路走下去并成为创新者、企业家的人，我想要分享这一点，因为你需要依靠这种程度的信念来理解你正在做的事情是可以做到的。如果所有能帮助成功人士的机会都在此时此刻存在。但这也是一种认识，即不是每个人都能成为托马斯·爱迪生。 We can’t all be the person that actually is known for the creation of the large invention, sometimes we — it’s our role to do all the work we can to build, I say, the little filaments that’s in the light bulb. And that takes a lot of time, right, but we don’t know — the inputs are exactly the same. And you don’t know where you’re going to be on that path of innovation. And so do not be so attached to the outcomes. And just understand, this is the work that you want to do. Saying that, you know, again, the inputs are exactly the same, you don’t know where you’re going to be on this chain of innovation for a particular set of products, but to do your best to understand that, you know, the universe is on your side and all these opportunities to help you be successful are already present. And the last thing is to show up. And so, I’ve learned that over my career, 80 percent, if not 90 percent, of my success could be attributed just by doing the hard work that it takes and the easy work, honestly, that it takes just to show up and be in the room or to be in a position to be lucky. And so by that, I mean the hardest thing — I’m a long distance runner — the hardest every single time I go out to run, the hardest actual actions to take are, you know, putting on all my gear in my apartment early on the morning to get ready to go out and run. As soon as I get outside of my door and start running, like, it just — my body takes over and I understand what I need to do, and it’s just easy peasy after that. The hard part is showing up, the difficult part is staying in the game and being committed and doing the small — the actions that other individuals are not willing to do to get to the places that you as an innovator want to be in, right. And so making sure that we’re not just showing up, but also over time, you’re going to want to try to optimize those moments that you are showing up, right. So this is a really quick story about this is like if you’re going to be in class in university, you know, you go to class and, you know, there’s a range of places that you can sit in the actual, in the classroom. By and large, when I sit in the front row of a class I am more engaged, I feel like I learn more, I actually do believe I learn more, and I feel more connected with the material because physically I am much closer to where the source of the material versus when I sit towards the back of the room, I’m physically further away, there’s all these types of distractions to grab my attention, and it’s not the same experience. And so if we’re going to show up then show up and do our best and make sure that we’re 100 percent present. And those two notions have taken me a very long way and understanding that everything that we experience was created by someone no smarter than me, and that largely all I need to do is to find the information that I need to create and make the next decision I need to make and to do it to the best of my ability. And then we’ll see where the chips fall.

凯蒂：绝对的。我喜欢这种建议，真正思考，你知道，只是如何倾向于出现的纪律和剔除。我喜欢那个。谢谢你！谢谢你，丹。这是一个令人难以置信的对话。我迫不及待地想看到你的下一个大东西出现了。我真的很感激你今天才能分享所有见面的时间。你能告诉我们我们在哪里可以在线找到你吗？

丹:是的，一点没错。我的投资组合和网站是danmmiller.com.．在社交网站上，我是@mauricemillerrr，最后有三个R推特和Instagram.．我的电子邮件是hi@danmmiller.com为任何想要伸出任何东西的人。

凯蒂：太棒了。非常感谢。一定要跟随Dan的工作，我很感激你是创业社区的导师。再说一次，我迫不及待地想知道你接下来会发生什么。非常感谢你的到来。

丹:绝对的。非常感谢你邀请我，凯蒂。

凯蒂：感谢收听本周的节目。一定要在社交媒体上关注我们，并在对话中加入你的声音。你可以找到我们@untoldcontent。

你可以听更多的剧集不为人知的创新播客．

*面试不是对个人或企业的认可。