与瑞安·霍克联系领导力和讲故事

本集由Untold Content 's赞助播出雷竞技电竞竞猜创新讲故事培训雷竞技raybet提现. 在这种沉浸式、互动式、故事驱动的体验中，增加对您最佳想法的认同。您的团队为其最新项目、原型和宣传改进故事讲述技巧，并从25个具有影响力的创新故事的史诗性示例中获得灵感。

凯蒂泰勒(00:00:04)欢迎来到不计其数的创新故事，在这里，我们将通过不计其数的内容来放大不计其数的洞察力、影响力和创新故事。我是你的主人，凯蒂·泰勒。我们今天的嘉宾是Ryan Hawk。他是一位主旨发言人、顾问和新书《欢迎来到管理层》的作者。他还是《学习领袖雷竞技电竞竞猜秀》的主持人，这是一个在《公司》杂志的五个播客名单上命名的播客，旨在让你成为一个更聪明的领导者。他也是布鲁克斯的负责人。他欣赏领导咨询实践。Ryan我很高兴你能上播客。谢谢你来这里。

Ryan Hawk.[00:00:42]凯蒂，我被抽钱到这里。我很感激让我很兴奋，因为你正在做的所有好东西都很兴奋。

凯蒂泰勒(00:00:47)是的。我想，你知道，我们大约一年前认识，我了解了更多。我听你播客的时间比那还长。但我们要更多地了解你的一些主题演讲和你主持的一些研讨会。所以请告诉我们更多关于你对领导的热情以及为什么这是点燃你激情的东西。

Ryan Hawk.[00:01:08]好吧，我会为我说，这是因为主要是，我很幸运能从一个非常年轻的时代的令人难以置信的领导者领导，从我的妈妈和爸爸开始。而且他们仍然这样做，以及我生命中的两个特定教练在高中的高中演奏了我的足球教练的领导力，鲍勃，格雷格和罗恩，我首先真正了解到了领导力的权力和价值。看到那两个家伙用他们的力量让我真正激励我试图在我长大和成熟时对别人产生类似的影响。所以一旦我离开了运动运动并过渡到商业世界，我想看看是否有一种方法可以对别人有这种影响。因此，这就是为什么我对研究出色的领导力，然后试图自己练习才能帮助别人来帮助他人。And that’s that is a big reason why my podcast of learning leadership exists and has for the past five years is because that’s what I’m truly most passionate about, whether it’s leading in the business world or even more importantly, leading my household as a husband and a dad. And it really translates into all worlds. And that’s why I love it so much.

凯蒂泰勒[00:02:31]真不可思议，不是吗，有时候我们生活中最不起眼的人会变成最有影响力的人?

Ryan Hawk.(00:02:38)这是真的。确实如此。我必须亲身感受到这一点。所以我希望现在也能为其他人做同样的事情。我想和你一样，这很令人兴奋。这很令人满足。这是令人欣慰的。它会让你兴奋。我认为这才是这一切真正有趣的部分。

凯蒂泰勒(00:02:58)所以我们会一起讨论一下创新。但首先，我想从领导力的概念及其与讲故事的关系开始。关于为什么故事对进入领导领域的人很重要，你能分享一些你的想法吗?

Ryan Hawk.(00:03:15)好吧，我想到了所有时间最喜欢的老板。他实际上是我老板的老板，所以我没有直接为他工作。但他的名字是Brian Miller。而我认为Brian的原因之一是他始终开始使用我们的会议或我们的城镇大厅与一个故事。并且故事通常在他的知识聚集过程中接受，无论是阅读书籍或文章还是观看TED会谈。他会采取一个故事，让我们说出来，即使我记得一个专门是一个高尔夫球手，一个名叫webb simpson的高尔夫球手。Brian告诉我们，韦伯是如何从一个赛季到下一个赛季的一半中风增加他的得分。然后他表现出他排名第一百名高尔夫球手的地方的区别。他和他只是通过这种简单的半笔画改善而改善。然后他与我们的世界相关联。 At this time, I was a sales professional. He was able to relate that then to our world and how we could implement some of the same behaviors that Webb Simpson did on the golf course, but then do it in the world of professional selling. And at that point, I realized that Brian had this magic skill to go out and be a consumer of knowledge, distill that knowledge in those stories down to its essence, retell them to all of us, and然后，最重要的是，创建某种实际应用程序。所以我们会记住这个故事。然后我们还记得如何根据他所说的故事来实施我们的日常生活。因此，而不是他站在那里并分享未来季度的最后一个季度数量的人数，并说我们必须达到这个目标，他找到了一种从现实生活中拉出的方法。我还记得这已经结束了，让十年前说。现在，Katie非常疯狂，我还记得具体的故事以及它如何影响我，所以当我看到一个像Brian Miller这样的人这样做时，我认为我需要努力和发展能够说明的那种技能stories and then relate them to the people that I’m leading.

凯蒂·泰勒[00:05:31]是啊，我觉得这是真的，不是吗?每一个真正强大的导师在我的生命中,每一个,你知道,真正伟大的老板或导师有能力讲故事,帮助我与他们当时在他们的生活中相关的时间,我已经在我的生活和我面临这样的挑战。当人类能够做到这一点时，当我们能够像这样彼此联系时，这是非常强大的。但对我们很多人来说，这真的很有挑战性。我认为，对很多人来说，把故事储存在我们的脑海里，几乎是一种勇敢的记忆挑战。

Ryan Hawk.(00:06:09)作为一个专业的讲故事人，你是怎么做的?比如，你是否有一个适当的过程，拥有一个故事银行，并知道何时进入银行并把它们取出来，无论是书面的文字还是口头的?你有吗?我对此很好奇，因为我一直在努力做得更好。

凯蒂泰勒(00:06:28)是的，绝对。重复深深地，而且还倾听并能够通过反馈来调整您的故事，以至于您来自不同的听众以及来自不同的利益相关者。我认为最好的策略之一来自古希腊，而且oration是一切。所以你必须原谅我只是一分钟的讨厌。这是我的城市。所以我们走了。让我们回到高等教育日。但是，是的，oration是这种文化中的一切。他们甚至没有写作。因此，运营商当时将使用的一个策略是他们将进入建筑物或空间，如果您愿意，他们会说出他们的独白或其脚本的不同行，他们的故事在建筑物的不同部分。 And so you’d stand in one corner and look at the environment. You kind of get a visual for where that space looked like. There might be something hanging on the wall. There might be a cup in the corner. Right. And you would sort of see those objects and you would speak the first few lines. Then you would physically move to a different part of the room and you’d be looking at a different比如说，你在看一个座位，而你会说出未来几行，你会在整个建筑物上进行物理移动，不同的水平，不同的地板，您正在查看的不同物体。你会以那种方式记住你的整个演讲。和哇。是的。因此，他们对空间和视觉提示有深刻的尊重，以帮助我们记住。所以我喜欢用它。这是一个有趣的实用Protip我猜是试图练习在不同的空间中说出不同的句子或不同的故事，以便您可以创建模式。这是一种召回的方法，因为你讲述了这个故事，你会记得你在你说这些话的时候。

Ryan Hawk.(00:08:23)我只是觉得，当它回到，虽然不一定性感，但重复对练习，排练，不断地重复非常重要。我知道什么时候准备什么时候排练和什么时候不排练的区别。这是明显的。是的。即使我已经做了一个主题演讲，同样的信息也会重复上百次。我还知道我要更好的舞台上,在所有的人面前如果我在我的酒店房间,练习,得到了代表,告诉的故事,用情感,理解你的声音的高点和低点,观众喜欢阅读,这是很难做到的,但我发现我也从体育界学到了这一点。这就是为时刻做充分准备的价值所在，所以当你上台或发生意外的事情时，你是有准备的，因为你的材料是冷的，这来自于适当的准备。

凯蒂泰勒(00:09:27)是的，是的，没错。我很欣赏体育的比喻，因为在这里，即使是一步一步的书呆子，当时的经营者也会去这些学校，在那里，他们的体育运动和演讲艺术一样重要。所以他们会从摔跤开始到下一个活动，那就是练习演讲。因此，身体、你的身体环境和肌肉记忆在当时是被深刻理解和感受到的。我认为这很重要。你知道，我们现在有很多技术工具来帮助我们记忆，写作。我们可以把事情写下来。有纸，有电脑，电脑，有文字。如果你是一个视觉化的人，能够看到一些单词，有些人，你知道，通过创造不同的语言，记住并真正通过不同的方式表达。你在文本屏幕上的谈话要点的变化，对吧，对我们中的一些人来说，这真的是关于视觉提示，但我完全同意你所说的，这是关于肌肉记忆和获得那些重复和重要的东西。

Ryan Hawk.[00:10:33]是的，不，毫无疑问。毫无疑问。我认为这就像任何你要做的事情如果它对你很重要，然后进行重复和引导，因为这是过度准备。没有缺点。我的意思是，真的没有。无论是播客，演讲，还是写作。正确的。这就是为什么作家必须每天写作，而不仅仅是，哦，我有一个写作项目，是时候开始写作了。就像，不，这是我日常生活的一部分，因为我是个作家。所以我每天都要写作。 And I think all of those reps matter.

凯蒂泰勒(00:11:03)是的,没错。还有一件事，我认为在我们思考故事的时候非常重要，那就是能够同情许多不同的观点和声音。这是一个很好的习惯，开始讲不只是你自己的故事。所以我可以说，这是我从我们的运营主管那里听到的或者这是我从我们的一个客户服务代表那里听到的这是她的观点。创造，我认为，能够增加多样性和包容性通过表达人们的观点，他们不仅会使用和你一样的文化参考，或者因为，你知道，这就是我们如何改变组织文化,确保没有只是相同的隐喻类型或引用流传,这可以无意中让人感觉外,你知道,种族或性别身份或文化参考感到被排斥。有时这并不是有意的，但这是可能发生的。所以我认为，用我们讲故事的力量，向别人发出声音，或者邀请别人，尤其是当你处于领导地位时，以一种与你想要传播的价值观相一致的方式，敞开心扉。正确的。或者这与你试图领导反对的使命一致，但邀请其他声音到你的舞台上，真正给多样性机会成为一种习惯，某种完全饱和的东西，如果你愿意，在你的组织中。

Ryan Hawk.[00:12:45]当然。它也可能为您创造了更大的视角，因为您将自己放在那个人的鞋子，以及同情和同情的领导者，这是有效领导者的两个伟大品质。因此，如果你养成习惯努力讲述其他人的故事或其他人或从他们的角度来思考它，我再也看不到了，我只看到了众所周境并定期把自己放在那个位置。

凯蒂·泰勒(00:13:11)是的，我喜欢那个点。是的。真的，同理心是另一个关于获得代表的谈话，它真的是关于练习和每天提醒自己，就像我的意见，而不是我的声音和我的力量的唯一一个可以用来举起他人。正确的。是的。是啊是啊。好东西。所以告诉我更多关于你的新书，欢迎来管理.

Ryan Hawk.[00:13:36]好吧，它真的为自己写了，因为我记得我从个人贡献者制作的飞跃。它是我认为特别是我在美国的美国在美国，这是我弊病的巨大飞跃。事实上，大多数人都是因为你对自己作为个人的当前角色非常焦点，至少我已经重点了。我想我应该为自己说话，但我见过别人已经处理过的人，你专注于此。但是，你意识到，因为你做得好，它让你有机会参加领导地位的这些更大的角色成为经理。然而，它需要成功作为个人贡献者的技能和成功领导他人所需要的技能，很少有它们是一样的。因此，您可以促进过去的工作。这对未来的工作没有很多事情。所以你真的没有准备好去。And I wrote the book that I needed to have when I made that first jump, because unfortunately I was one of those bad bosses, bad managers that my initial professionals had to deal with for a period of time and didn’t really fully know what I was doing. I had a great boss, but he also had a lot going on. And so I needed to figure some things out and I could have used some sort of manual or a guide in order to help me do that better. And so I tried to write that guide now that many years have passed. And I’ve also spoken with more than 350 of the most thoughtful leaders and borrowed some of their wisdom, mashed it together with my experience and my learnings and then and then produced it in a 60 thousand plus word book. And so that’s my hope is, Katie, that literally every person who gets promoted from that individual contributor to manager role gets a big congratulations, Pat, on the back and handed this book. Yes. That could help them do a much better job than I did when I first got promoted.

凯蒂泰勒[00:15:48]我以您将其与之相关的方式热爱您的个人故事，您知道，引发了您撰写本书并承担这些主题和您正在创建的所有内容的原因。而且，您知道，这本书与所有商业部门和所有商业规模和个人在这些职位内有关。Rika的管理层跨越了专业轨迹的所有方面都可以看起来像。但是我想专门发言于Startup社区一点点，因为管理是在启动世界中的东西，它可以在启动变化时快速击中，它开始获得势头，它开始增长和雇用。有时这些公司正在经历，您知道，同比增长300％或800％的500％或800％。他们预计也是人们真正是人们在开始的人们和与三个或四个或五个人的小团队一起工作的人，其中个别贡献真的是一切。这就是一切都需要运行一个坚实的节目一旦开始迅速扩展，需要采取不同的身份作为经理和领导者，这种转变对于在高增长初创公司的人来说非常迅速。你能告诉我的意思吗？我知道这对我来说就是一个初创公司，这是我经历的事情，我相信我相信我会继续学习它。现在，我在试图教练其他地方的位置，你知道，我知道的，你知道的，公司中的人们开始认为自己是经理和领导者，以便我们能够继续规模。它真的很特别适用于四项初创公司，规模弥补了我们公司的人们正在将自己视为经理。 And it’s a way of positioning those startups to dream bigger. Hmm.

Ryan Hawk.(00:17:40)是的，我认为这是一个很大的挑战，因为你只是从现在的工作中迈出了现在的工作，以领导别人做这项工作。And so your job is just a dramatic change as a dramatic transition that sometimes isn’t it’s not always timed properly or maybe you don’t necessarily want to, but in order for the business to grow and be successful, that’s what needs to happen. And so that’s why I think it’s it’s a worthy cause to study and understand how to be an effective leader, how to understand, to inspire people and empower people to do their ultimate best work and how and also the fact that each and every person on your team, Katie, has a different personality, has a different motivation internally. They have a different for why they’re doing what they do. And as the leader, it is our job to understand what that is, to help unleash those people, to do their ultimate best work for the betterment of both themselves as well as your organization, your company. And that takes a lot of time. That takes effort, that takes careful thought, it takes reflection. And most importantly, it takes you deliberately caring deeply about each of those people because they certainly don’t care how much you know, unless they know that you care. And I found that putting all of that together is much easier said than done. The execution of all of that is a daily battle in order to stay on top of it and to lead with trust, which is the foundation of all relationships. And in doing that, though, as hard as you’re trying to think of a top line business, see type terms as well as you have to combine that with leading actual people. And that’s that’s the challenge of doing what you do.

凯蒂泰勒[00:19:42]我认为这是非常令人难以置信的真实，对此过渡。这是一个奇怪的心态转移，在你可能被奖励之前，你可能会奖励自己，你知道，你的头脑里面的积极内部消息。而且，在从客户或投资者开始的初创企业或者从投资者那里出发，你就是做好工作。你匆匆忙忙，对吗？就像你在这里做的工作一样，切他和从中转换到。缩放你刚刚进入一个可以是可靠的或能够支持其他个人运行流程或使他们的创造力的过程中的进程，这是一种如此不同的心态。I’m really grateful that you’ve written this book because it seems it’s really helping us pay attention to how strange of a shift that really is for so many people, especially when we reward ourselves and are rewarded in companies for being able to do the work really, really well by ourselves. And that’s oftentimes the reason why someone gets identified for a management promotion. Right. But then ironically, it’s also the challenge of sort of getting out of that mindset and saying, oh, now it’s my job to empower other people and help them get the recognition and the reward for the hard work.

Ryan Hawk.[00:21:12]这是完全正确的。当你在现在的岗位上转变时你感觉如何?怎么样了?

凯蒂泰勒[00:21:22]哦，谢谢你的询问。你知道，我认为如果我回顾起源雷竞技电竞竞猜，它从来没有成为今天的公司，我并不是从一开始就是成为领导者的热情​​。你知道，我开始作为一名研究教授并开始咨询​​一边，这只是我独立工作。幸运的是，我有一些令人难以置信的导师，特别是有人那些有点担任奶奶厂商的分包机构，即我与退伍军人事务部门开展。她对我说，你知道，凯蒂，你没有合同，必须自己做所有这一切。您可以知道您实际上可以雇用人员或分包给其他人，以帮助您实现他们要求的范围。并保持您的研究议程和您的教学。而且我想，这很棒。我可以缩放自己。太棒了。和对。 So in startup speak that that’s the that’s a huge mindset shift to at least for me at the time. Right. It was sort of more in the professional services, you know, kind of definition, I guess, of a startup. But and that’s shifted for untold as we start to dream quite, quite bigger. But I know that in the beginning it was it just became very important to me as I realized how much more was possible if I could create jobs for people, if I could create opportunities and we could reach more clients that way, we could really help accomplish this, this broader mission of being able to translate technical information and ways that all people can understand it, just that a larger vision came into play. And the way it’s going for me now is that I’m in a new role as we’ve scaled quite a bit over the last, you know, since our founding three years ago. And now I’m running a team of about seven and helping them think with with that kind of mindset is my current job as a leader so that we don’t limit ourselves and also to identifying and really, again, to to what you said, which is helping people identify their strengths and their desires professionally, you know, so sort of understanding the value of people who are doing the work. You know, for us, that’s really high level research, writing and content creation. And we work with highly complex subject matter. And so, you know, in technical, scientific, medical fields and so really deeply respecting the work that’s being done at the content level, at the research level, and not forcing everyone on the team to need to scale themselves if that’s not their professional trajectory, but also balancing that with the vision to scale this this organization and the belief that with processes and practices and with really strong management, we can, in fact scale much more rapidly and be able to create even more jobs for more people and get, you know, be able to to work with with more innovative organizations to support them and therefore accomplish our bigger mission. So I’m in an interesting position now of trying to really coach others potential. You know, people who, you know, in a startup, we sort of have this interesting choice, especially when we’re not at this point yet, we don’t have the pressure of investors yet have to force to scale. And so there’s sort of this, like, ability to decide how fast or slow we want to go. And that can be a point of tension, too. So it’s super different in the startup world in deciding at what point to bring in. You know, larger investors and that sort of thing, and but I’m a very sort of empathy led leader and so thinking and really letting this company grow based on, to some degree, the talented people who make it and their visions to combining our visions together and building something that I could never have imagined on my own. Right.

Ryan Hawk.[00:25:41]你做我的意思是,我着迷于像你做什么当谈到你的业务发展削减销售过程,像你卖多少多少或获取新客户是因为你和你的团队的讲故事的能力,向有效的故事吗?我会百分之百地问，这听起来像什么?我对此很感兴趣。

凯蒂泰勒(00:26:13)是的。所以，你知道，就像所有有效的讲故事和销售一样，它实际上是关于满足客户的需求，你正在交谈的潜在客户的需求。所以，你知道，它是不同的。当然，我们必须我们有不同的谈话要点，取决于，你知道，我们和哪种类型的客户交谈，但总的来说是。我们在Untold最精彩的故事是你们组织中有太多的专家，他们的见解都被留在了实验室或病人的床边。没有足够的。没有足够的思想领导内容从这些个体中出来。如果你想在公众面前变得更有创意，让你的客户或消费者理解你的品牌，那么你真的需要利用你的专家的见解。与此同时，对许多专家来说，他们很难以一种其他人都能理解的方式分享他们的研究和数据。正确的。所以我们工作了很长一段时间与工程师、产品设计师和科学家和医疗提供者来帮助创建一个研究和开发之间的桥梁和一些更多的专业技能领域的组织将这些人所知道的,他们的见解的销售和营销团队 can leverage that in conversations and and help produce thought leading content. That’s, you know, evidence based content. That’s a lot of what, you know, we do. And there’s so much need for that, especially as there’s more especially there’s, you know, increased transparency is a demand from consumers. And more and more leaders are feeling pressure to make sure that they are communicating thought leadership and articulating the fact that they are, in fact, innovative and they know the trends and they’re on top of their game. And so not really. I think there’s just this dual pressure now in a way that is more as a higher demand than ever, where you don’t just have to be great at the work and leading the work. You also have to show thought, leadership and project that identity inside your organization and beyond makes so much sense.

Ryan Hawk.[00:28:35]我很乐意听。谢谢你的回答。很感激。我应该练习一下我的五秒版本。我爱它。那很酷。那很酷。我的意思是，它不是它不是真的没有没有五秒钟的答案，所以我喜欢它。

凯蒂泰勒(00:28:50)是的,谢谢你。太感谢了，太感谢了哦，天哪，我不敢相信我们只剩下一分钟了，就这么过去了。但是，你知道，告诉我，你认为讲故事的重要性是什么，尤其是对创新或者对鼓励我们展望未来的公司来说?

Ryan Hawk.(00:29:11)嗯，我的意思是，我认为这是最有效的工具之一，以推动人们。真正的创新就是做出改变，有效地把人从一个地方带到另一个地方。如果你能有效地讲出来，以故事的形式讲出来你是否会把它叫做领导层的变革管理之类的。但我发现，如果你回顾历史，我的意思是，肯尼迪总统，在赖斯大学发表的登月演说。正确的。比如他讲了一个多么有效的故事，以及故事背后的原因。有无数这样的例子改变了很多人的生活。领导者有能力做到这一点，如果他们学习并理解讲故事的意义。这真的能激发创新。它可以激发变革。 It can inspire people to move. Also, as a leader, storytelling can build confidence. And the people that you are leading, it shows that you are a thoughtful person, that you’ve done some deliberate work in trying to understand what the future holds or what are people most scared of. They’re scared of uncertainty. And so leaders who can tell effective stories about what they want and see and think will happen moving forward, have the ability to to excite and inspire people. And I remember talking to Marcus Buckingham about this. He’s like the leaders I want to follow and see around the corners. So what do you mean by that? Well, they’ve done the necessary work that I’m not going to say that they can predict the future, but they have a way about them that builds confidence that they have. They seem to have a better understanding of what may happen moving forward than those who don’t. And that’s why I went up when I’m asked what are qualities of effective leadership, I think being extremely thoughtful, reflecting, really understanding what’s happening and then being very intentional. And I think storytelling plays a role. And both of those are really thinking things through at a deep level and then being intentional with your actions following that careful thought and being intentional about the story that you are crafting for yourself as well as for the people that you’re leading, will make a massive difference in the success or failure of your team, of your company, of your business. And so that’s why it’s important for all of us as leaders to really think about that and be intentional in how we’re crafting that narrative for ourselves and our teams.

凯蒂泰勒(00:31:47)完全正确。我喜欢你强调反思和深思熟虑的重要性，你知道，一旦一位领导者确定了一个重要的信息或一个重要的故事要分享，你对最好的沟通方式有什么想法？你认为领导者应该为自己设定什么样的目标，以及在讲述故事时应该设定什么样的目标？

Ryan Hawk.(00:32:13)好吧，我的意思是，我们可能都在那里看到了一些型号。我会讲一个快速的故事，以便我们在这里越来越好。但我记得我记得我在我的播客中为客人的一些真正善良的作者发送了预先草案，他们提供了一些非常有用的反馈。我记得的一个人特别是瑞安假期名称的人，谁是一些书籍的奇妙作家，包括障碍是方式自我是敌人和其他一些。瑞安很有礼貌地提供了反馈。我把我书的初稿寄给了他。他说，我记得是一封电子邮件，然后我们又打了一个电话。他说:“你在干什么?”43页的故事应该在第一页。你必须抓住他们的喉咙，让他们想继续翻页。这是一个很残酷的比喻。但他真正的意思是你有一个很棒的故事却把它埋在中间。你应该在书中以那个故事开篇。 It’ll it’ll it’ll help people turn the page. And what that tells me is when I am giving a keynote or writing a piece, don’t be afraid to lead off with a compelling story that will make them really perk up and want to wait for the next word. Because really, what are you doing as a speaker? You’re just trying to earn the right to have your audience’s attention. For the next few minutes, and so my keynotes, whether they might be an hour long, but I’m trying to earn the right every few minutes to hold their attention for a few more minutes. When I’m writing a book, I’m trying to earn the right for that reader to turn the page to go to the next one and want to continue turning pages. And so as from a storytelling perspective, that’s what it’s all about. If I understand the dynamics behind telling an effective story that makes people want to continue listening to my speeches or read my book or listen to my podcast, that’s what I have to do. And so I think having a hook, having something that maybe is a bit surprising to kick it off is one way to to understand the power of the beginnings of things. And I always try to think of, all right, let me let me get to the beginnings of things on a regular basis where I’m grabbing attention and then and then having the dynamics of storytelling play itself out through the course of either speaking or writing that. And that’s one memorable story in my life that has had an impact on me that I’ve tried to implement on a daily basis.

凯蒂泰勒(00:35:01)我喜欢这个建议。这是难以置信的。是的，有一种叫做超现实位置效应的东西。这使我想起你的建议使我想起了它。它的意思是人们会更好地记住他们听到的第一件事和最后一件事以及中间的单词，我有点迷路了，但你真的必须在开始和结束时创造一些持久和难忘的东西。

Ryan Hawk.[00:35:26]是的，我同意，然后显然存在冲突，你必须挖掘情绪神经，我认为你需要在途中有几个惊喜。有时会说，哦，等等，等等，还有更多。正确的。然后有一个令人满意的结局。我认为这些是故事的一些动态。但它首先了解了这一事实的力量，即当你给出一个主题时，我从讲的教练那里学到了这一点。所以我很幸运。我通常会在那里说，哦，我很兴奋到这里。非常感谢你。那就是这样的浪费。 You’re wasting such precious moments when you have all of their attention and you immediately just let them down by not having any type of surprise, no hook, nothing. You’re just saying, oh, thanks so much. This is so great. What a good venue it is when you should go boom right into the story or right into the moment immediately so that they’re like, wow, this is different. I got a perk up, I’m ready to go. And then from there you take off. But I don’t like wandering into a speech if I’m going to go and I’ve learned this the hard way by making mistakes. But whether you’re leading your team’s meeting on Monday morning coming up or you’re giving a keynote in front of thousands of people or you’re writing a book, don’t wander into it. Understand that that first initial moment is so important. It’s so vital. Don’t waste it. And most people do, but don’t waste it. Don’t wander and just go in like, OK, if you were writing, just delete the first paragraph and start with the second paragraph. Yes. Write like that’s that’s one way I think of it. OK, I’m just going to get rid of that part. Yeah. Yeah. It’s, it’s much easier said than done though. We all have made those mistakes and we’ll make them in the future. But, but, but that’s something to really be cognizant of when you’re, when you’re in the mode of leading a meeting or telling a story or even writing a book of don’t waste that initial moment.

凯蒂泰勒(00:37:17)我很喜欢这个例子，第45页中间的故事。我都听到了，你得把它往前拉。从我自己的写作过程中我知道这是我经常和客户谈论的东西，如果你经常不知道你需要说的第一件事，直到你写了45页或者至少几段。就像，通常情况下，结论需要成为一切的开始以及写作和思想领导的递归性质。我们只是认为它回到我们的建议关于代表真的不只是带走傻逼初稿,你知道的,是让自己好傻逼初稿,但你必须愿意把众议员和一个很好的策略,你可能会说最聪明、最有趣的,最让人惊讶的事情快结束了。

Ryan Hawk.[00:38:15]写作的时候，你得稍微热身一下。找到好东西是需要时间的。我们不是假设你是那种马上就很厉害的外星人，而我不是。要让它运行起来需要一些时间。

凯蒂泰勒[00:38:26]是的，绝对。所以，瑞安，非常感谢你在播客。如果您受到今天的谈话的启发，您必须查看该书。欢迎来到管理层和Ryan展示学习领袖播客。瑞安，非常感谢你。人们可以在哪里找到你？

Ryan Hawk.[00:38:43]谢谢你邀请我。凯蒂很高兴在我的网站上与你交谈。几乎所有的东西都在learningleader.com上，或者如果你碰巧在听你的电话，你可以把单词learner发短信给四个人，四个人发短信给两个人，四个人发短信给两个人。你几乎得到了我所有的东西。我们会确保你也能做到这一点。

凯蒂泰勒(00:39:01)惊人的。瑞安，非常感谢你在播客上。

Ryan Hawk.[00:39:04]谢谢，凯蒂。欣赏它。

凯蒂·泰勒[00:39:07]感谢收听本周的节目。一定要在社交媒体上关注我们，并在对话中加入你的声音。你可以在Untold Content找雷竞技电竞竞猜到我们。

你可以听更多的电视剧创新播客的解开故事.

*访谈不是个人或企业的认可。