与Leslie Krohn合著的《全球危机中的科学故事》

“在所有不同程度的长度和复杂程度中讲故事是讲述创新故事的关键。”Argonne国立实验室的首席通信官员 - 莱西克罗恩

为什么故事对创新过程有关？分享故事的创新者可以灌输哪些值？创新领导者如何激发创作者告诉和分享他们的成功和失败故事？

我们谈到了Leslie Krohn.，首席通讯官argonne国家实验室在2020年的两倍。一是在2019冠状病毒病大流行前的年初，二是在2019冠状病毒病大流行已经全面爆发的9月份。探索阿贡国家实验室在大流行期间的研究倡议，以及讲故事如何能增强科学创新的影响和相关性。在这个分两部分的采访中，Leslie介绍了推动全球决策和全球健康的COVID-19研究的最新进展。

本集中提到的研究链接：

心+心策略:了解人文故事：Covid-19

Uchicago：Covid-19来自我们专家的信息

PEW研究：美国人将美国的低标记用于处理Covid-19，其他国家的人也是如此

听播客

成绩单

本集由Untold Content和data +Science提供的数据讲故事培训提供动力雷竞技raybet提现。雷竞技电竞竞猜通过学习数据可视化和技术讲故事的最佳实践，将您的数据转换为强大的视觉故事。无论您是一个PowerBI或Tableau的人，或者只是想更好地交流您的数据，本次研讨会将激励您看到数据中的故事。学习更多在https://undoldcontent.com/dataStoryTelling雷竞技raybet提现Trining/。

凯蒂:您要听到的是什么是两种不同的创新竞争故事派分拼接在一起。我很高兴在2020年两次与Leslie Krohn发言。首先，在Covid-19 Pandemer开始前开始，然后在9月再次在9月再次出现，而Argonne国家实验室已经完成了围绕大流行的研究举措支持它。当我们开始谈论Covid-19在九月的谈话中开始倾听，然后留下来调整，因为我们将在这一集结束时将我与Leslie的谈话插入莱斯利。享受。

欢迎来到创新的不陈述故事，在那里我们扩大了洞察力，影响和创新的解开故事。由无国界的内容提供支持雷竞技电竞竞猜，我是您的主人，Katie Trauth Taylor。今天和我们一起在播客上回到我们的播客是Lesley Krohn。她是阿尔冈国家实验室的首席通信官。莱斯利，让你回到播客是很棒的。自从你和我第一次在2020年初说话的世界完全不同。

Leslie：事实上,它是。

凯蒂:你能不能从阿贡的角度告诉我们这个变化的时代以及国家实验室是如何应对的?

Leslie：当然。我认为这是，你知道，一年中的话是前所未有的。这是这样的。对于沟通者来说，它一直在某种程度上只是肯定我们从未更加需要的职业，更有价值。这是一件好事。我认为我的团队中的人们肯定真的，真的很享受他们能够在大流行过程中增加的价值。所以我认为从阿隆尼的角度来看，实验室是一个非常实质的校园。有很多活动，只能在我们设施的实验室空间内发生。因此，当我们达到3月中旬并意识到我们需要避难并开始大规模远程工作时，该实验室必须进入我们所谓的最低安全操作。你知道，我们正在保持灯光，我们保留了非常昂贵的设施和设备保护和安全。 And so as we approach that, our first priority was the safety of our people and our facilities. So we very quickly — in the span of a few days, really — moved to large-scale teleworking. We went from having upwards of five thousand people on our campus on an average daily basis to about 400, 450. So a dramatic reduction in our onsite population. Had to shut a lot of things down safely. Had to equip 93 percent of our workforce to be able to be productive from home offices. We had to do a little shuffling of technology and share a number of chairs to get everybody ergonomically situated for what is — and I think will continue to be — a long haul of extended telework. So, you know, keeping our people safe at the lab and at home really has been our first priority. There was a certain amount of work that we knew we wanted to continue to do as the lab was in this minimum safe operations mode. And we’ve opened it up a little bit now to what we call limited operations. But among some of that high priority work was research that was directly contributed to the pandemic itself. And I can talk a little bit more about that later. Making sure that we had the appropriate researchers as well as the safety professionals who needed to be onsite if work is going on on campus, making sure that that was all set up for success, but layering in all the additional safety precautions that needed to be added in to our normal safety routines. You know, working as everyone is very familiar with face coverings now, with face shields, getting all that in place was really our focus at the beginning. And then as the pandemic has unfolded, different things become more challenging or less challenging. It took us a couple of weeks to figure out teleworking. But teleworking ceased to be sort of the conversation of the day. And as summer came and kids were out of school, childcare became a bigger topic. And as the pandemic — now we’re back into a return to school phase, which is another whole issue, a set of issues for our caregivers. So, you know, Argonne has had to respond to all of these different things. And again, I go back to what I started with, the communications, you know, sort of function has had to really step in and help make sure that everybody knows what’s going on and what we’re doing and when we’re doing it and how we expect people to do things. And so communication has just really been the big glue that held it all together as we’ve tried to keep people safe. So I think that’s one of the biggest ways that Argonne has responded. I think the second thing that I would mention really has to do with our commitment to contributing to the solutions to the pandemic, to keeping the science going. And I think there’s four different areas where Argonne has been contributing when it comes to the science of COVID. The first thing is how do you understand the virus? What does it look like structurally, you know, and how do receptors on the virus map to potential drug targets? And we do a lot of that imaging work with our big x-ray microscope that we talked about on the last podcast, the advanced photon source. So understanding that virus and adding that knowledge to the global scientific community is a big, big priority. We had a team of folks testing face covering material for effectiveness early on. A lot of that work was published back in the April-May timeframe as people were trying to figure out, well, how do I really face coverings and what’s the best material? We had another set of people focused on modeling the spread of the virus. And we actually have been advising both the city of Chicago, the county of Cook County in Illinois, and the governor of Illinois on how the virus is likely to spread if we, you know, put certain restrictions in place for the population, limiting gatherings or asking people to shelter in place, or if you see a 20 percent versus a 50 percent versus a 70 percent compliance on the masking and distancing regulation. So the epidemiological modeling work has been another big contribution from the laboratory. And the last one is the work our super computers are doing in helping everything related to therapeutics. So whether it’s vaccine-related or treatment-related, what are the ones out there that are most likely to be effective and narrow the trial and error that can be part of that exercise. You’ve got a lot of potential drug compounds. Which ones are most likely to work? Which ones do you want to put into trials quickly? So those are the two priorities — keeping our people safe and contributing to the COVID solutions. That’s really how Argonne has been responding six months in.

凯蒂:嗯，谢谢你，首先，分享内部视图，并解释阿贡的四个关键领域，即阿隆尼对这一流行发作。我被那个吹走了。而且我是 - 我知道每个人都应该非常感激和对这本科学感兴趣。我们在我们第一集中谈到的事情之一是对科学或对科学的误解的公开不信任。而且我做了这一点，你实际上反驳说，你知道，最近的研究表明，科学家们实际上在普通公众的一般方面普遍举行，根据一些刚刚出来的新研究。And so what’s been shocking, you know, you said unprecedented as the kind of keyword for 2020. And I think what’s been the most concerning from my view to watch is the ways in which the general public has really expressed a lot of distrust among public health experts or towards the science and the medicine, medical facts behind this virus. And so could you share — I would love to know if you’ve — I’m sure you’ve been grappling with that as well, and especially, you know, as chief communications, as a leader are really trying to figure out, how do we communicate this research and these insights. Especially I’m thinking where you’re doing that modeling work to say, OK, if 50 percent of people wear their mask, here’s how spread will happen. And if only 20 percent, here’s how much more spread will happen. I imagine that that really has a direct impact, those kinds of models on helping people understand or get behind and support public health experts.

Leslie：是的，毫无疑问。在此之前，我看了一些最近的数据。我很欣赏心灵战略的工作。自疫情爆发以来，他们一直在追踪美国公众的意见和对各种不同机构和组织的信任。我也看了芝加哥大学的其他研究，一些皮尤研究中心的数据。所以说到信任，它正在发生变化。知道吗，在过去的六个月里，信任发生了转变。我发现有趣的是人们对医学和科学的信任度很高。你知道的，大概50岁以上的人对科学有合理的怀疑或高度信任。这个数字还在增加。 So the medical community, the scientific community is gaining in trust in the last six months. The other group that seems to be rising is employers. So employers, they were kind of more in the mid 30s in terms of what percentage of population trusts employers. But that number is going up.

凯蒂:有趣的。

Leslie：他们看到雇主做正确的事情。将协议放在他们所说的地方，如果你来我们的校园 - 而argonne已经完成了这一点，我们已经发表了我们称之为argonne健康协议。它说，如果你在我们的校园里，我们希望你距离，洗手很多，如果你生病了。你知道，所有这些良好的行为。所以当人们看到雇主做那些事情时，信任升起。我们看到了这一点。我们看到雇主采取正确的预防措施。您考虑所有宣传航空公司的清洁程序以及所有这些类型 - 这有助于增加雇主的信任。您知道，政府和不同的政府机构 - 全国和全球 - 他们在40多岁的中期。最初的信任程度高于雇主。 But we see that falling. And there’s lots of media out there, and media is the other area where trust in media was in the low 20s and that’s falling as well. So that’s — those are what’s documented in some of the research that I’ve pulled, you know, to say trust is really shifting. What I think is interesting, in addition, is that trust in science and medicine, as you alluded to, has been stable for decades. It’s high. 50 plus percent of people trust science and medicine. And it’s been that way for a long, long, long, long time. So it’s increasing a little bit now, but it’s just holding steady, which is great. And I think the other thing is that Pew’s study in particular asks people, do you believe that these entities and these organizations are acting in the best interests of the public? And 80 plus percent believe science and medicine is acting in the best interests of the public. Not near those levels if you’re talking about employers or the media or some other institution.

凯蒂:那是如此乐于助人。

Leslie：所以我一般认为，这是沟通的实验室的一个很好的基础。所以当我们出去的时候，我们做了一个公开演讲 - 我们在我提到的这三个主题中的三个可能的三个可能的时候，我们谈到了先进的光子源并成像病毒和流行病学建模，以及如何超级计算机有助于治疗方法。而且，你可以出去argonne网站，看看你是否想看看。但是，你知道 - 我们有一位像900人的观众那样令人敬畏。所以人们渴望信息，你知道，如果你倾听问题，你看聊天，人们甚至越来越渴望越来越渴望。所以我认为，你知道，只有对科学的信任。除了过去六个月的情况下，他们只有一个很棒的阶段，只有一个很好的阶段，你知道，你知道，你知道，你知道的。

凯蒂:我们将链接Leslie在这一集的节目笔记中提到的研究文章。我认为如果你有兴趣了解更多的话，深入研究一下会很有趣。告诉我们更多一点——我很喜欢你主持的网络研讨会，我们也可以链接到这些研讨会。如果你想在阿贡的网站上分享一些资源，或者，你知道的，我们可以从你们的科学家那里听到和收集故事和见解。

Leslie：当然。是的，我会告诉你讲述讲座的链接。我们在我们的网站上有一个位置，这只是我们与Covid相关的科学，我也可以寄给你那个链接。

凯蒂:精彩的。嗯，莱斯利，你还有什么想分享Argonne的回应以及我们应该在这大流行中间注意创新者的关注吗？

Leslie：我觉得思考一下也很有趣，当我们经历危机的时候，科学和研究是如何发展的。你知道，因为科学可以是一个缓慢的，有条理的，严格的过程——但不是说它不是。但前几天我们刚刚接受了一个媒体采访，谈论科学界和医学界在追求疫苗、治疗方法和治疗方案等方面的发展速度。因此，全球都有一种难以置信的热情，想要投入其中，找到资金，迅速行动，并分享成果。

凯蒂:是的。

Leslie：我认为这已经改变了。这一切都是为了更好。科学合作一直很强大，我只是觉得现在更强大了。所以这一切看起来都很美妙。但也有不好的一面，这也是一种有趣的挑战科学本身就是一个全球性的事业，对吧?全球设施，全球专业社区等。而缺少旅行在某种程度上挑战了这一点，我们称之为前所未有的。所以我看到科学界在试图找出，如何弥补这一点。所以我认为在如何进行研究方面有一些变化。我认为我注意到的另一件事是，在这整个时间框架内，非冠状病毒的科学仍在向前发展。 It’s not like we hit the pause button on everything else. You know, just in the last two months, Argonne has been part of announcing sort of the national quantum internet back in July. And the Department of Energy in the White House announced five quantum centers and seven artificial intelligence centers just a few weeks ago. We’re doing groundbreaking ceremonies and ribbon cutting ceremonies on new facilities at the laboratory. So as much as you think everybody’s been focused on COVID, there’s a whole lot of non-COVID stuff that is proceeding as well. So, science is certainly evolving as we deal with the pandemic.

凯蒂:听到这个真是太好了。而且我是如此 - 我很感激有人看看合作如何变得虚拟。而且我想，你知道，现在每个人都是虚拟的，国际合作也许可以加速更快。所以听到这些故事真是太棒了。和莱斯利，我很感激这个更新。我迫不及待地想与我们所有的听众分享它，以便他们可以调整这些讲座，并在大流行期间更多地学习更多关于信任和讲故事和信息共享的信息。非常感谢您在播客中加入我们。

Leslie：哦，非常欢迎你。

凯蒂:以后再聊。

Leslie：好的。小心。

凯蒂:莱斯利，你在传播方面有如此出色的背景，尤其是在科学学科和组织方面。我非常感谢你今天的播客。

Leslie：很高兴在这里。谢谢你的邀请。

凯蒂:所以我很乐意开始更多地了解你的个人对创新故事的信息。

Leslie：我想这一切都始于我职业生涯的早期。我当时在安德森咨询公司工作，后来更名为埃森哲我的任务之一是管理一个内部会议，一个合伙人会议。但那是在90年代中期，因特网真正出现了。作为一家咨询公司，埃森哲试图说服并向员工传达这样一个事实，即他们在互联网这一创新领域处于领先地位。所以管理合伙人对我说，“我们要让人们相信我们真的在做这件事。我们处在这方面的前沿。”因此，我们带来了那个会议，这个活动，是有很多创新的技术让人们思考不同的事情。说服他们激发激情和信仰。特别是我们为该会议做了一项事情，我们使用合作伙伴自己的孩子向他们传达范例如何转变。我们采访了这些孩子，我们说：“你是什么计算机给你吗？”而且他们就像，“你的意思是像空气一样，就像电力一样。”三岁的孩子能够立即传达成年人需要考虑这项新技术的成年人不同。我认为这真的是它的开始是互联网在我的职业生涯早期击中它就像，“哇，那是创新。事情是不同的。“

凯蒂:听到这一观点，创新者并不一定认为自己作为创新者，这也是如此有趣。这是你在整个职业生涯中遇到的事情，即有一定的消息传递或某些故事，可用于帮助员工认为自己是创新的吗？

Leslie：我认为这是真的，因为人们很难看出他们不知道的东西。如果您的经历永远是新的和不同和改变，那么您将在步骤中掌握。但如果你的经历不是，你就像不同一样看。所以我认为创新者有时候很难将自己视为创新。此外，由于创新者总是在您认为自己作为通信者的位置之前七步。你帮助他们告诉今天的故事，但真正的创新者已经在路上10年了。

凯蒂:这是迷人的。你和许多了不起的大公司合作过，大型创新公司，尼尔森，萨拉·李，通用电气，你提到过埃森哲。你能跟我和我们的听众分享更多关于讲故事如何在这些不同的组织中产生影响的见解吗?听起来你一直扮演着首席营销传播的角色，在很多方面都涉及到讲故事。你能分享一些你在不同组织工作的故事吗?

Leslie：我认为他们做了所有股份相似之处，我的角色一直是辅导员和顾问。不可避免地是我支持所知的组织，希望被认可，想要被听到。他们希望被视为不同的，他们想要脱颖而出。讲故事只是一种让事情令人难忘的机制。人们可以比大多数时候更好地叙述故事。所以我认为，在我进入的任何角色中，我尝试使用经典的讲故事技巧。您可以将它们调整到情况。但我寻找有一个开始和中间和结束的故事。曾几何时，互联网出现，这发生在它，然后发生这种情况。你可以谈论主角和敌人 - 不一定是人，而是情况。 And how can a technology be the protagonist against something like an environmental issue or concern? I think about conflict and resolution. So product marketing is often conflict and resolution. You’ve got a problem and you have a technology or an innovation that helps remove the problem. So I think storytelling just enables people to remember because they’re classic techniques that they’re used to. It’s how they learn, it’s how they were raised so it’s just employ those and it helps with the memorability of the message.

凯蒂:是的，这是一个非常好的观点。我也在思考讲故事对创新实践的重要性，对创新过程的重要性，对创新团队的重要性。为什么讲故事对创新特别重要，你能分享一下你的观点吗?

Leslie：我可以从Argonne上给你一个我认为说明讲故事而且对组织的重要性的故事。所以argonne是一个国家实验室。我们致力于创新致力于在击中主流前10年。在雪佛兰伏特下车生产线之前，我们在电动汽车电池的电化学上工作。有一个故事有趣的是听到我们称之为Oleo海绵的产品。如果我想到这一个故事，那么它肯定有一个开始和中间和一个结尾。它有一个主角和我之前提到的拮抗剂。所以在开始时，有一块聚氨酯泡沫，你和我的那种可以坐在现在。而且本身就是如此，但这是关于它的。我们的一些科学家创造了一种新材料，这是一种聚氨酯泡沫的涂层，并且该涂层的性质是它喜欢油。 So if you coat the foam in this new material and you put it in a situation — call it a pond that’s got some oil scum from motorboats — it will wick the oil right out of the water. And so you have the foam and it meets the coating and now you have this innovation called what we’ve dubbed it, the Oleo Sponge. And so now we have the hero is the sponge, the antagonist here is the oil, and we’ve got a solution that’s innovative. So for the laboratory, our job is now to transfer that technology to industry. So we need to be able to tell that story in a way that gets industry excited for it. So what kind of industries might be excited about it? The one that seemed the most obvious to us were environmental concerns. So it’s a product that industrial companies might need. They took the product and they tested it in a variety of different environments. One in particular that they did was an ocean test. And we took that product also down to the Dallas Earth X conference about two years ago. Which actually has both an industrial component to it but also a general public thing. And we demonstrated it. So people could walk up and down the aisle and see exactly how this Oleo Sponge works. They could do it themselves. But what was also fascinating is, as you demonstrate the innovation, people came up with other applications for the product. There were women who walked by and said, “Can I have one of them for my kitchen sink? I want to do dishes with that thing.” And we were like, “We hadn’t even thought of that.” And other people came by and said, “I’d like that for makeup. I want some of that on my face.” So I think the innovation — By telling the story in a memorable way to say, “Chronologically we started with this, we added that, we came up with this thing that’s new and it can do all these heroic things,” people remembered that and then the ideas started to fly about how else they could use it. So helped advance Argonne’s goals and helps the planet too. So it’s all good.

凯蒂:我喜欢这个故事。在过去的一年里，在Untold Cont雷竞技电竞竞猜ent，我们分析了不同的创新故事，这也是我们开始这期播客的原因之一。那个研究的结果之一是我们确定了很多不同的故事模式，就是你刚才分享的那个，我们称之为惊喜发现。还有一个我认为可能与之重合的，那就是勤奋的创新者。所以如果有一个特别的挑战，如果你继续创新，最终你希望它会带来突破。但这个特别让人吃惊因为你从这个概念开始，这是你日常生活中的东西，它是很典型的聚氨酯，我们现在正坐在上面。然后你展示了这个动态的，非常独特的应用。它能吸引听众并帮助他们以不同的方式理解。

Leslie：关于这个故事，我想我还想补充点什么。如果你考虑到材料开发的复杂性，你肯定是在一个令人汗流浃子的创新领域。他们年复一年地研究出正确的公式。然而，当我们讲述这个故事时，交流过程的一部分就是有很多不同的听众都对它感兴趣。我们特别成功地告诉了Oleo海绵不同层次的技术复杂性和复杂程度取决于观众。

你当然可以从一篇发表在期刊上的24页的科学论文开始，这适合特定的受众，但你也得想办法把这个故事讲给那些不是材料科学家，不是科学博士，不是懂它的应用但不懂它的化学成分的商人听，我想这是我第一次来阿贡时最喜欢的事情之一，有一个10秒的海绵饼干的视频，里面没有旁白，也没有文字。它只是展示了一个烧杯，你往里面倒入蓝色的油，这样你就能看到它，然后你把海绵扔进去，所有的油都倒进海绵里。你一字不提地讲了那个故事。所以能够以各种不同的长度和复杂度来讲述一个故事也是讲创新故事的关键。你必须能够根据观众的需求来扩大或缩小故事的规模。

凯蒂:当然，在这一集里我想和你们讨论的一个问题是关于对齐，这涉及到获得内部利益相关者，外部利益相关者，合作者的支持或反馈，确保你提出的创新，原型和研究问题与组织的使命是一致的。我在阿贡也想说，我相信你们也在考虑行业合作以及如何解决我们社区的实际市场需求以及作为公共机构听到的社会需求。这么多不同的观众在这么多不同的学习和技术素养水平。你能和我分享一下你的想法吗?为什么一致性对创新工作如此重要?当创新故事与不同的受众需求不一致时，失败或无法进入下一个批准阶段的风险是如此之大?

Leslie：是的。有两种方法来看待对齐问题。当然一个是客户需求，从企业行业的角度来看，你要关注的是有市场需求的东西。实验室的使命是服务于行业需求，同时也为未来几十年的创新奠定基础。所以有一些基本的探索性发现科学你不知道你在找什么。当你发现一些东西，你不确定你要用它们做什么，但你需要做这个工作。对于国家实验室和许多其他研发机构来说，探索是非常重要的。我认为为你讲的故事找到一个归宿是一种完全不同的练习。所以这里的实验室从基础发现科学到能源工作，与电网，核能和可再生能源一起工作。

我们有一个大的光子科学部门，可以测试药物化合物和各种新型材料。我们拥有超级计算，我们正在进行各种数据可视化，并巩固令人难以置信的数据，以弄清楚现在对人类瘫痪的疾病的新治疗。如何讲述Argonne故事并使用那个范围建立一个argonne品牌的问题，因为这些范围是一种不同的挑战。与那我们真正说的是我们的使命是发现。所以我们想讲述发现的故事，每次我们讲述一个发现的故事，我们都会建立argonne品牌。我们还知道我们讲述了合作故事，因为这些创新是由于合作而发生的很多次。这是我们在电池空间中的工作，我们正在与其他许多国家实验室合作。我们正在与大学合作，我们正在与行业合作，并通过这些合作在一起，他们能够在能量密度和成本和本性的成本和事物方面创造突飞猛进。因此，如果我们告诉这些故事，我们与我们试图为实验室建立的品牌和声誉对齐。肯定有时候我认为人们会进来说，“这是一个违法行为。”但要弄清楚，我们重新讲述了我们如何讲述故事。We’re telling stories of collaboration, we’re telling stories of innovation, we’re telling stories too about the facilities and the scale of this national laboratory because it is — we can fit Wrigley Field inside one of the facilities that we have here. We’re operating at a scale that’s unprecedented almost anywhere. There are other national laboratories, certainly, but we had to just reframe how we created that alignment.

凯蒂:绝对的。这是有意义的。你从一个包罗万象的发现概念开始然后可以应用于各个部门和科学学科。

Leslie：绝对的。

凯蒂:你能谈谈讲故事的作用吗，尤其是在科学传播中?我特别想到了最近一些关于专业知识消亡的研究普通纳税人对科学的误解或对科学和专业知识的不信任，甚至能够团结起来理解真理是什么，这是当今社会的一大挑战。你能说故事,那么为什么从这个角度来看,如果你有一定的策略,试图分散的跨越阿贡和科学家和专家来帮助公众了解科学家们在做什么,为什么它是重要的,以及为什么我们应该相信这些努力?

Leslie：你是绝对正确的。它记录了人们对任何类型的媒体的信任正在侵蚀，人们的理解科学敏锐较低。但好消息是，它还记录了人们对科学家的信任作为发言人，因为讲故事者仍然非常高。它位于三种可信赖的信息来源。所以那里有一个精彩的基础。我认为与公众沟通的关键是使您的故事可关联。所以我经常律师们，我正在与不谈论分子。谈谈为什么分子很重要。和很多时候，人们都很容易专注于技术的东西，而不是“对我来说是什么”。所以这是一个经典的通信原则。 The audience needs to know why they should care, and it isn’t necessarily a scientist’s instinct to lead with that; they want to lead with the formula, the algorithm, and that’s okay. That’s the discovery. But what I’ve found and what I coach my team to do is tease that out of them. Why does this discovery matter? It’s about making the discovery relatable and being able to talk about it in terms that people understand. Like with the Oleo Sponge, you can talk extraordinarily technical about that. And you should talk at a level that a highly educated, science-interested person can understand, and at the level that a five year old can understand. And that doesn’t mean that you’re dumbing it down. To me, your communication is only effective if your message is received, and so you really have to scale how you talk about it. So I think that’s the key, is working with the subject matter experts to understand why it would matter. Where is this applicable, how can we connect this to something that people care about. We did an announcement over a year ago around some quantum technology, and I think the general population is still struggling with quantum and what is quantum physics and quantum mechanics and quantum networks and quantum computing. But when we were able to say, right now the integrity of communications between — inside a country, for instance, if you think about security or you think about warfare, you think about this integrity of communications inside of business with competitiveness and confidentiality and all that kind of stuff. This notion of unhackable networks was something that people understood, and all of a sudden you had their attention and you could then start to explain to them why this particular development in the quantum space was going to matter. Again, the lab is 10 years ahead of at least sort of where a lot of innovations end up showing up out in the outside world, but the people can understand that concept. And by hooking it into something that people could relate to, they’re like, “Okay, I get it.” And if that’s going to help us be more safe, more secure, then they’re interested.

凯蒂:绝对的。所以相关性和影响力真的

Leslie：的影响。这是两个重要的词。我经常说的两个词。

凯蒂:你认为这有什么难的，尤其是在科学领域?

Leslie：我认为部分原因是，通常在你所说的那个之后会有更多的发现。没有人能保证有多少会…它们会怎样发展。

凯蒂:是的。我有一个科学家告诉我一次，他说，“我不喜欢做故事，因为当我还是个孩子时，有人对我说，你在说话故事，它意味着你在撒谎。”有时它可能是一个根深蒂固的东西，科学家感到有点谨慎地宣传，如此依赖于数据和证据，他们实际上可以错过让它可关联的机会。

Leslie：我认为这是绝对真实的。我经常听到，“我们不想这么说，因为这听起来有点夸张，我们是在夸张。”所以他们想要坚持数据。但我认为有一个中间地带，我确实认为这是一个沟通者的工作去推动一点了解边界在哪里。有时它们并不像科学家希望的那样接近，也不像传播者希望的那样遥远。所以很多时候都是良好的，诚实的谈话和现实检查之类的东西。这种挣扎是真实的，因为我们不想过分夸大正在发生的事情。就像我说的，在今天的发现和最终的创新使用之间还有很长的路要走，这很难预测。这让很多人感到不安，这是可以理解的。

凯蒂:我也再次，我保留 - 正如你所说，我一直在考虑那种发现的总体使命。而且，如果你能找到一个普遍的真理和联合在它周围的人，我认为公众也曾经有这种愿望教导我们的孩子被发现，好奇，在盒子外面思考。因此，再次发现那个可靠性的时刻，我认为可以帮助解决挑战的桥梁。

Leslie：我认为，这是一个价值的好奇心是我与之合作的每一个科学家中所固有的。他们只是想知道为什么。为什么会发生这种情况？或者为什么不发生？我期待这个，它没有。他们也本质上很好奇，有一个更好的方法。必须是一种更好的方法来养活1000亿人的规模。必须是将地球上的水流到需要它的干燥场所的更好的方法。有一个更好的方法可以让新鲜的饮用水和这个星球覆盖着这么多。这种好奇心就是让我们作为社会向前发展的原因。 It’s absolutely critical and children have that. They have it and I commend everybody who does all the work in the STEM fields to nurture that and bring that out and in children and grow their interest in science and how they think about themselves as someone who can be curious and explore and solve problems, because that’s what we need. We need a lot of that.

凯蒂:是的。但愿如此。我很想听到您对创新者，特别是科学创新者的建议，他们如何更好地利用故事来获得他们正在发展的好奇的想法。

Leslie：我想我们已经提到过了，但是我会总结一下。我认为影响力非常重要。这有助于科学家们理解我们需要梳理出这一事实。它就在那里，而且他们一直都知道。这可能不是最重要的。所以关注影响是至关重要的因为影响是让人们关心的东西。如果它没有任何影响，那么人们就会忽略它。所以影响是非常非常关键的。我认为相关性，为什么它重要是第二个部分。你可以说你要治愈癌症，好吧，好吧。 But you’ve got to relate it to people. So if you’re talking about prostate cancer, you’re talking about brothers and fathers and husbands and if you’re talking about Alzheimer you’re talking about people’s elder statesmen in their families. And that becomes the relatable nugget. They kind of conceptually understand Alzheimer’s or cancer, but the relatability is, how does it connect to them? And so there are two pieces there. And so sometimes there’s a whole lot of what ifs with the scientists to say, so would this be applicable in this situation? Would it be applicable in this other situation? And then you’re able to come up with a nugget. So I can talk about unhackable networks, okay, fine but in what context? So the impact and the relatability are part and parcel of what you need to anchor your story. And then I think that I would advise the scientists that they really have to be mindful of the jargon of the technical talk and they’ve got to put in a little bit of effort to scale that sophistication, the technical or scientific sophistication depending on who the audience is. So they may be presenting at a technical conference on Monday and they may be talking to the Wall Street Journal on Tuesday. And those are two different presentations, even though they can be talking about the same subject, the same impact, the same relatability. And so I advise them to put in that effort and try and scale their story appropriately for the audience. It’s kind of fun if you want to do an experiment. Take any two people and have one, pretend that they’re from the modern day era and have the other one, pretend that they’re from 1776 when the country was founded and have the one from the modern day era explain what a cell phone is. Without using words that somebody 300, 250 years ago would understand. It’s really, really hard.

凯蒂:是的。一封从空中飘来的信，马上就会进入你的耳朵。

Leslie：正确的。我会打电话给别人。打给他们，他们没有电话。这些电话他们在一张小名片上有名片一个管家把它放在托盘上送了进来。我觉得这比任何人想的都难。要讲好科学故事，要尊重科学和事实的严谨性，让事情有相关性和可理解性。这是非常非常辛苦的工作。我向所有喜欢这样做的人致敬，因为当你找到科学传播者时，他们对自己所做的事情充满热情。

凯蒂:是的，似乎赌注才越来越高，更高才能使科学可关联并揭示其影响，以便像阿隆那样的组织将继续资助，行业将继续投资于该资金的研究。所以我认为这绝对至关重要。所以当我们包装时，我很想听到你的接受，它是2020年，你认为今年我们会看到哪些创新的故事，中等和方法？您认为科学家们将尝试沟通哪些新方法？例如，现在有一个非常受欢迎的Meme，随着人们完成论文，他们的论文展望并将其放在互联网上。这是愚蠢的。有时候观看“展望您的论文”也很迷人。显然，一个人的一种愚蠢的例子，但我看到了漫画和艺术装置，试图解释和制作与公众相关的科学。您认为我们在这方面可能会看到未来的内容是什么？

Leslie：我不是算命的，我是讲故事的。我不知道。虽然我可以告诉你，我确实认为有些人在做一些有趣的事情，当你提到艺术时，我记得在伦敦的大英博物馆，有人试图说明人们一生中要吃多少药。于是他们织了一块布料，一种平纹细布，然后他们在布料上嵌入了小丸。这是治疗头痛的两片雅维这是我在飞机上睡觉时服用的褪黑素这是我咳嗽和流感时服用的。但他们的数据显示了一个人在平均寿命中服用的药片或药物的平均数量。把它缝在一块布里讲述了一个贯穿一生的医学故事这显示了影响和相关性。这就是艺术。那不是科学杂志。我喜欢用这种创新的方式来讲故事。 No words required. Maybe there’s a little caption in the museum or something like that, but it stuck with me and even if it was years ago. So great stories will resonate. I don’t know what the new forms will be. I could never have predicted the rise of social media in my career so I’m not going to guess in the future but I’ll leave you with that example of a piece of scientific research communicated extraordinarily innovatively that stuck.

凯蒂:我爱它。非常感谢你，莱斯利。和你谈话是我的荣幸。

Leslie：非常欢迎你。

你可以听更多的剧集创新播客的解开故事。

*访谈不是个人或企业的认可。